Hey hey just a shout out. & 'kyushukyuhai'

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Poochy
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Re:Hey hey just a shout out. & 'kyushukyuhai'

Post by Poochy » Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:50 pm

I\'d just like to note that the Japanese \"yaochuupai\" literally translates to \"1 9 tiles\", but refers to the set consisting of 1, 9, and honor tiles. The Japanese term for just the 1 and 9 tiles is \"routouhai\". I usually see people use \"terminals\" as an equivalent to yaochuupai.

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Re:Hey hey just a shout out. & 'kyushukyuhai'

Post by Barticle » Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:32 am

Robert wrote:Yes, we are talking about the "why are you being such a wuss and not going for the Thirteen Orphans" redeal.
lol! :lol:
Poochy wrote:
ironmanmj wrote:just 9? i thought there was some other bit about non connecting sets or something like that.
You´re probably thinking of Shisanputa [...]
"13 Unrelated Tiles" is (when allowed) counted as a Yakuman, at least it is on Mahjong Taikai IV. There are two optional limit hands there - Shisanputa and Renhou (win on discard before your first turn).
[...] on his/her first draw must meet the following criteria:
1. Exactly one pair; the other 12 tiles all have to be distinct.
2. Any two tiles in the same suit, besides the two used to form the pair, must be at least three numbers apart. For example, if you have a 5-dot, you can\'t have any of these: 3-dot 4-dot 6-dot 7-dot
I think it´s only available to the dealer too.

There´s little info about the hand online in English so thank you Tom for documenting it on your site.

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Re:Hey hey just a shout out. & 'kyushukyuhai'

Post by Poochy » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:05 pm

Barticle wrote:
I think it´s only available to the dealer too.
Nope, I distinctly recall a non-dealer claiming it on the first draw in Yakuman DS, on more than one occasion. (Horrible Mahjong game for non-beginners, by the way - the harder CPU characters cheat and collude with each other more than Akagi\'s opponents. Though this was probably to be expected from the same programmers who brought us Mario Kart.)

I think the requirements are similar to Chihou - you can only claim it on your first draw, and only if nobody has declared a chi, pon, or kan.

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Re:Hey hey just a shout out. & 'kyushukyuhai'

Post by Zi Rong Low » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:49 pm

I think anybody is allowed to declare Kyuushuu Kyuuhai providing they haven\'t discarded a tile yet. That being said, I have no idea why somebody would even think of declaring it when it is such an excellent starting hand to aim for Kokushimusou with... :unsure:

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Re:Hey hey just a shout out. & 'kyushukyuhai'

Post by Barticle » Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:09 am

Poochy wrote:Barticle wrote:
I think it´s only available to the dealer too.
Nope, I distinctly recall a non-dealer claiming it on the first draw in Yakuman DS, on more than one occasion.

Well that´s good news - I have the Shisanputa option turned on so that´s quadrupled my chances of seeing it. :)

Could be yet another example of mahjong rules varying from one place to another though. I´ll report back if I see it.

Speaking of which, I´ve seen computer players declare abortive draws with 9+ terminals/honours about fifteen times but haven´t once been given the option myself which seems a little suspicious. Obviously I´d decline and go for Kokushi instead :) but it´s just odd.
(Horrible Mahjong game for non-beginners, by the way - the harder CPU characters cheat and collude with each other more than Akagi\'s opponents. Though this was probably to be expected from the same programmers who brought us Mario Kart.)
Heh! I see you play against Mario characters so presumably when you´re about to win a hanchan you get taken out by a cheap koopa shell. :lol:

PS Isn´t "puta" a Spanish pejorative term? Always amuses me when I see it in a mahjong context.

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Re:Hey hey just a shout out. & 'kyushukyuhai'

Post by Barticle » Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:14 pm

Barticle wrote:I´ll report back if I see it.
Well I made Shi San Puta at the weekend. Okay, I say I made it... of course there was no effort on my part.

My tiles were dealt and I saw the Tsumo option pop-up - for a split-second I thought I had Tenhou. Then I noticed what a mess the hand was! :laugh:

Image

It ain´t pretty, but it was my first dealer Yakuman. So of course I´m no further forward in knowing if the game allows non-dealer SSP...

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Re:Hey hey just a shout out. & 'kyushukyuhai'

Post by Barticle » Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:59 am

Update: I´ve seen a non-dealer make Shi San Puta now.

(ouch - but at least you can´t get ronned with it!)

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Re:Hey hey just a shout out. & 'kyushukyuhai'

Post by Live » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:59 am

Robert wrote:Yes, we are talking about the "why are you being such a wuss and not going for the Thirteen Orphans" redeal.
Lol, a couple of days ago on JanRyuMon a player got it and called the redeal.
Today i was the one to get it... obviously i went for the cute little orphans (slaughtered on the way, as usual)

Edit: Today was unbelievable. And i mean it.
First hanchan hand: Dealer asks redeal, he had to find just 3 tiles for thirteen orphans. On the redeal i become the dealer (second hand) and i get the redeal option. I\'d really like to know the possibility of this occurrence...
Screenshots:
Time: 13.46.44 (Gmt +1) Dealer, Redeal on very first hand
ImageImage

Time: 13.47.11 (Gmt +1) I\'m the dealer, Redeal option
ImageImage

Obviously i didn\'t use it, and got slaughtered on tempai as usual. I\'m still shocked though.

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Re:Hey hey just a shout out. & 'kyushukyuhai'

Post by Barticle » Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:33 pm

Live wrote:Edit: Today was unbelievable. And i mean it.
First hanchan hand: Dealer asks redeal, he had to find just 3 tiles for thirteen orphans. On the redeal i become the dealer (second hand) and i get the redeal option. I\'d really like to know the possibility of this occurrence...
So the option of a "9+ terminals and honours" redeal occured in two consecutive hands?

I can give you a very rough idea of a probability, but it´s based on my own game stats (and assumptions) rather than a proper statistical analysis.

Since I was interested in the different abortive draws I´ve been keeping a count of how many times they occur since I started playing Mahjong Taikai IV.

I´ve seen the 9+ T&H draw occur 28 times but that´s only from the other three players. I´ve only just learnt that I have to press a button to get the re-deal option (not that I would of course!) so the actual number of occurences would be 28 x 4/3 = 37.3

That´s from 2931 kyoku (taken from the in-game stats) so the frequency would be 37.3/2931 = 1.3%

The chance of that happening twice in a row would be 0.016% - so pretty rare.

(This assumes that the game randomises the tiles properly and that the CPU players always take the re-deal when they have the option.)

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Re:Hey hey just a shout out. & 'kyushukyuhai'

Post by Robert » Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:31 pm

The odds of 14 tiles randomly chosen from the set including at least 9 different terminals/honors is (if I got the spreadsheet math right) 1 chance in 309.1851 -- but, in terms of the actual game, that is just the odds for East having the opportunity to declare this type of draw, not the odds that the draw will be declared. (For one, East could, I suppose, declare it on a tenhou kokushi musou, but would be very stupid to.)

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Re:Hey hey just a shout out. & 'kyushukyuhai'

Post by Robert » Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:34 pm

For the 3-player game (reduced tileset), the odds become 1 in 54.6470, again, if neither my spreadsheet program nor I have made a mistake.

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Re:Hey hey just a shout out. & 'kyushukyuhai'

Post by Live » Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:39 pm

A rare occurrence indeed...
a couple of minutes ago i got a Chan Kan.
Lol, i keep getting (and seeing) weird occurences.
Yesterday two Rinshan Kaihou almost in a row from two different players.
Btw, the strangest one it\'s that since a week i always lose in the tournaments :P

Edit: Anyway, seems that JanRyuMon keeps track of the hands won and has advanced statistics.
I\'d really like to understand what\'s written :D

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Re:Hey hey just a shout out. & 'kyushukyuhai'

Post by Barticle » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:16 pm

I see my approximation is pretty close to your figures, Robert. I get one in every 79 hands (2931/37.3) and you have one in 77 (309/4 since four players make it four times more likely). :)

I got two \"four same wind initial discards\" draws in two consecutive hanchan at the weekend.

I got a Chan Kan win at the wkend too, but I was playing my old game which doesn´t have yaku stats tracking. Doh! It´s only the second time I´ve got it. Would´ve been nice to have in my \"collection\" on my new game!

Is there a record for consecutive loses...? :laugh:

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Re:Hey hey just a shout out. & 'kyushukyuhai'

Post by Live » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:10 pm

Barticle wrote:Is there a record for consecutive loses...? :laugh:
Oh, I\'m workin\' on that on JanRyuMon.
Another game completely messed up, i was first (for a change) and then got a baiman (completely unthinkable, i cutted one 1-dot, nothing went wrong so i cutted it again. On the second cut... Baiman, 16.000 points.
And then in a row another mangan... and a happy hand worth 7700, bringing me down from 30k+ points to 6500.
I managed to get back on track, but i still got fourth with about 20000 points.
I keep losing every single tournament match since 12 days. :(
Edit: i checked it :|

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Re:Hey hey just a shout out. & 'kyushukyuhai'

Post by HotelFSR » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:14 am

Are you used to playing against the computer? That could explain it- SO much harder playing against real opponents.

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