When to wait

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Mauro
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When to wait

Post by Mauro » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:14 am

One of the thing I'm struggling with at the moment is when to wait for a better wait instead of going for riichi/winning; I had this hand:

3-crak 5-crak 6-crak 7-crak 8-crak 5-dot 6-dot 7-dot 1-bam 1-bam 4-bam 5-bam 6-bam 7-bam

with 3-bam 5-bam 8-bam in the ponds; I could drop 4-bam and go for winning, waiting for 4-crak; or I could drop 3-crak or 8-crak and wait, since with 3-bam 5-bam 6-bam 8-bam (11 tiles) I have a better wait and pinfu; I discarded 8-crak, then I drew 4-crak, so:

3-crak 4-crak 5-crak 6-crak 7-crak 5-dot 6-dot 7-dot 1-bam 1-bam 4-bam 5-bam 6-bam 7-bam

I could discard 4-bam 7-bam, but I'm in furiten, so again I discarded (I think) 3-crak; I drew 7-bam, so:

4-crak 5-crak 6-crak 7-crak 5-dot 6-dot 7-dot 1-bam 1-bam 4-bam 5-bam 6-bam 7-bam 7-bam

I'm in tenpai again, waiting on 1-bam 7-bam: same as the initial kanchan, so I discarded 4-crak and waited; next draw was 7-bam, and I declared tsumo.

Does this make sense?

Edit: I first went tenpai (waiting for 4-crak) on the sixth discard.

3-bam 5-bam 8-bam weren't in my pond, they were in my opponents'.

I don't think my opponents looked dangerous: no one had meld showing something flushy, neither their ponds looked that way, or for some outside hands; it was early in the game (it was I think around East 4) and in the hand (sixth discard); I was second with around 3k on the third and 8k on the fourth.
Last edited by Mauro on Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mauro
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Re: When to wait

Post by Mauro » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:22 am

By the way, I first was tenpai (waiting for 4-crak) on the sixth discard.

Gnom
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Re: When to wait

Post by Gnom » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:47 am

In your situation I probably wouldn't have pushed it that way since you were hoping to develop on the bamboo area where there is a pretty good chance you'd get furiten, and pinfu is not guaranteed so there isn't that much to earn. I probably would have kept this tenpai, but would have not declared riichi, since it would be only 1300 points with ron and 2000 with tsumo and could get better with the draw of a 2 man or a 9 man.

But the thing is it's highly dependent on the situation of the game, how early it is, what's your point standing, how dangerous do the other player seem? It's not possible to give a definite answer based on what you posted. Your hand is not a game changer and even making it better probably won't bring it to that level. That places it in the category of tactical hands, that can't be used to get points but as a way to support your game. If you pick up the 4 man you can declare a tsumo, if you can get a ryanmen you can even damaten ron, which is useful if you're at the top in the standing. If you feel somebody is dangerous but has a defensive style you may declare riichi to force them to fold. You can also fold yourself if you feel the need to since you won't be losing a lot. And to judge that we would need to see the detailed context.

Mauro
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Re: When to wait

Post by Mauro » Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:17 am

Sorry, I wasn't clear: 3-bam 5-bam 8-bam weren't in my pond, they were in my opponents'; I said that info to let you know my chances of drawing them. In bamboo I couldn't have been furiten, so I was pushing there.

As for the game: I don't think my opponents looked dangerous: no one had meld showing something flushy, neither their ponds looked that way, or for some outside hands; it was early in the game (it was I think around East 4) and in the hand (sixth discard); I was second with around 3k on the third and 8k on the fourth.

Edit: I added these info in the first post.

Krabman
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Re: When to wait

Post by Krabman » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:05 pm

I think in hopes of improving your shape you should've initially discarded 3m. That would've left you with 4 excellent ryanmen and would've saved you from furiten. You focused too much on Souzu when Manzu shape was just as likely to improve.

But yeah, just like Gnom said, whenever you want someone to analyze a tactical question, try to provide more info on current round, point situation, Dora and all that stuff :)

Mauro
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Re: When to wait

Post by Mauro » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:17 pm

Krabman wrote:I think in hopes of improving your shape you should've initially discarded 3m. That would've left you with 4 excellent ryanmen and would've saved you from furiten
So I can hope in 6-crak 9-crak without being in furiten, I see.

Edit: and 7-crak.
whenever you want someone to analyze a tactical question, try to provide more info on current round, point situation, Dora and all that stuff
Will do, thanks to you both for the heads up; unfortunately I don't remember dora this time (but I think I had none), but I'll jot it down in the future :D
Last edited by Mauro on Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Gnom
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Re: When to wait

Post by Gnom » Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:39 am

Also, being furiten with a good wait may be sustainable. Depending on the other's discards a 3-way wait may leave you with up to 10 winning tiles. You have a pretty good chance at tsumo so if your opponents are defensive you can declare riichi to make them fold and just wait.

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Re: When to wait

Post by Referee » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:06 pm

Not much to gain? I see a potential menpin sanshoku there, and it's go-around 6. But then again, what do I know?

Kick on the face by the wall giving you that 4m that would have been tsumo, but the tiles are playful like that.

Q: Where you oya? Because if you were, you should have just gone the quickest way and keep tenpai.

Mauro
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Re: When to wait

Post by Mauro » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:10 pm

Nope; I'm not sure which wind I had, but it wasn't East.

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