Analysis: Mauro's Games - 04

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Mauro
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Analysis: Mauro's Games - 04

Post by Mauro » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:37 am

http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015092118gm-0 ... 19598&tw=1

This is a game I really don't know if I could have done something more: each time I was in tenpai all my waits were either in the dead wall or in my opponents' hands linked with other tiles (either in groups, or in some combination waiting to be completed); the only time they weren't, I was in riichi and drew my opponent's winning tile. There is something I should have done different and I'm missing?

E1/0: so late in the game with four outs maybe it'd have been better to go damaten?

Krabman
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Re: Analysis: Mauro's Games - 04

Post by Krabman » Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:46 pm

I'm a beginner but I'll share some thoughts:

E1 - you held on to that 1s for too long. Whenever I have this type of shape, I discard the hanging terminal immediately since I already have a group. Situation would be different if I had 12 Pinzu.

You missed some decent tiles there, especially at 12th go-around when discarding 5p in favor of 12s penchan didn't do you any good.

Note that with 3x 2s in your hand and 2x 1s already visible, there was a good chance someone had 1s atama in which case he wouldn't have discarded it in betaori, especially seeing your discard pond ;)

E2 - I don't understand your move at 4th go-around. Why break up such a good ryanmen? Your hand was progressing nicely so I would've simply gotten rid of Chun in hopes for menzen.

7th go-around - I wouldn't have broken up my hand just yet. I would've discarded Chun first to keep the shape. Of course, overpushing that hand was not an option.

E3 -
8th go-around - I do believe keeping that ryankan in Souzu would've been better in terms of shape evolution. I would've discarded 4m (still 1 shanten)

E4-1
8th go-around - I'm wondering if discarding 9s to pursuit Tan-Pin would've been a good descision? That Pinzu shape was nice and could've easily evolved. I don't think that 3p was a big mistake as you already had 1 shanten with 2 ryanmen and you didn't really need to hunt for a monster hand. I'm only thinking.

S1-2
4th go-around - that 8s was more valuable than 1m, I think.

S3 - I would've kept that Pei for a potential Honitsu. I would've discarded 1m. I don't think Riichi was a good choice considering Toimen's hand and your wait.

S4
I don't think that Dora soba 3m was a good choice. Oya could've declared hikkake Riichi. You were still far from tenpai and had a really poor shape, so for me it would've been full betaori right from the start. The fact that it was Oorasu and you were last doesn't matter here.

In betaori, it's a good habit to begin with the safest suit tiles against Riichi. Therefore, 2s should've been discarded first. 5m, 6m and 5s would've been safe against BOTH toimen and kamicha. See how Kamicha didn't really fold and resorted to suji? In that case, he might've been still hoping for okkake riichi. Keeping Haku for later was also crucial.

It was better to hope for someone else to deal in and sink in last than risking that 3m. At least that's what I think.

I hope I made some sense :) Let's wait for strong players to step in!

Mauro
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Re: Analysis: Mauro's Games - 04

Post by Mauro » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:14 pm

Not sure these was the right decisions, but here's why I played that way:
Krabman wrote:E1 - you held on to that 1s for too long. Whenever I have this type of shape, I discard the hanging terminal immediately since I already have a group. Situation would be different if I had 12 Pinzu.

You missed some decent tiles there, especially at 12th go-around when discarding 5p in favor of 12s penchan didn't do you any good
I did that because 1-bam 2-bam 2-bam 2-bam gives me a pair with 3-bam, and I can use 4-crak 4-crak 5-crak either to have a run or a triplet, while the 5-dot was alone.
E2 - I don't understand your move at 4th go-around. Why break up such a good ryanmen? Your hand was progressing nicely so I would've simply gotten rid of Chun in hopes for menzen
7th go-around - I wouldn't have broken up my hand just yet. I would've discarded Chun first to keep the shape. Of course, overpushing that hand was not an option.
4th: I have a chance at sanshoku, and if I'm able to pull it either 4-dot 5-dot, 2-dot 2-dot or red-dra red-dra could be my fourth run; the chun pair gives me two possible pairs, and a possible additional yaku.

7th: I don't have a good hand: 2 shanten, with just one group done and the hand doesn't look so big; I thought dropping chun with no one of them visible could be dangerous.
E3 -
8th go-around - I do believe keeping that ryankan in Souzu would've been better in terms of shape evolution. I would've discarded 4m (still 1 shanten)
Yup, I think you're right.
E4-1
8th go-around - I'm wondering if discarding 9s to pursuit Tan-Pin would've been a good descision? That Pinzu shape was nice and could've easily evolved. I don't think that 3p was a big mistake as you already had 1 shanten with 2 ryanmen and you didn't really need to hunt for a monster hand. I'm only thinking
Could be; I'm still getting the hang to hands with a lot tiles of the same suit, I'm not sure which discard is better here.
S1-2
4th go-around - that 8s was more valuable than 1m, I think
I discarded 8-bam because it was isolated, while 1-crak can make a run with 3-crak, leaving 3-crak 4-crak as ryanmen.
I don't think that Dora soba 3m was a good choice. Oya could've declared hikkake Riichi. You were still far from tenpai and had a really poor shape, so for me it would've been full betaori right from the start. The fact that it was Oorasu and you were last doesn't matter here
The problem was that for me not to end fourth someone has to win on kamicha, a good hand (at least 5700) on toimen, or a big hand (12800) on shimocha, otherwise I'm fourth, so I preferred to try and win the hand than going betaori from the start, since also a low hand would have been enough.

When toimen declared riichi, kamicha could have discarded suji just because he hadn't safe tiles (indeed, he hadn't), but at this point yes, maybe it would have been better to go in betaori and hoping for kamicha to pay.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Krabman
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Re: Analysis: Mauro's Games - 04

Post by Krabman » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:43 pm

No problem! I like analyzing stuff, even though I'm not very good at it yet.

E1 - Ok, but take a look at Tenhou calculator:

http://tenhou.net/2/?qd=123455m5p1222798s

There's a significant difference between discarding 1s and 5p. I would've discarded 1s much earlier.

E2 - I still would've tried for good old Men-Pin Dora 1. San Shoku would've still been an option for me. However, it's good to know you had a plan. And it could've actually worked out if it hadn't been for Kamicha's Riichi!

E4-1 You probably know that but:

http://www.gamedesign.jp/flash/bamboo/bamboo.html

Here you can practice dealing with one suit tile combinations :)

S1-2 Yeah, I guess the only serious backfire of that 8s discard would've been ending up with 67s ryanmen tenpai. No big mistake here.

Mauro
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Re: Analysis: Mauro's Games - 04

Post by Mauro » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:07 pm

Krabman wrote:E1 - Ok, but take a look at Tenhou calculator
I don't really know how to read it, beside shanten, so I'm not sure what to look for now...
E4-1 You probably know that but:

http://www.gamedesign.jp/flash/bamboo/bamboo.html
I think I saw it somewhere in the forum, but I didn't really check it out; I will now, thanks for the reminder :D

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Re: Analysis: Mauro's Games - 04

Post by Referee » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:21 pm

Discarding 1s gives you tenpai on 37 tiles: 123456m 34567p (assuming none are visible outside your hand). 5p only goes to tenpai on 26 tiles: 123456m 123s.

You can click on any of those tiles (in the appropriate row) to see the next-shanten tiles (in this case your waits) should you draw the tile you clicked on.

Mauro
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Re: Analysis: Mauro's Games - 04

Post by Mauro » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:35 pm

Thanks, now I get how to read that on Tenhou!

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