What would you Discard

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Johnstonjamese
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What would you Discard

Post by Johnstonjamese » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:25 am

1-bam 1-bam 1-bam 3-bam 3-bam 3-crak 3-crak 9-crak 9-crak 2-dot 4-dot 5-dot 5-dot red-dra

Okay, the question was to go for 7 pairs or all sets... How would you play it?

Johnstonjamese
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Re:What would you Discard

Post by Johnstonjamese » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:38 am

Cut the Red

This way you have many options. If you complete another set of 3, go for the yakuman / 3pungs all sets.

If you complete another pair, kick the extra 1 and go for all pairs.

If you draw the 3 pin, kick one of your sets and go for 3 pungs.

It\'d be a complete waste to call on a hand like this though in my opinion.

I love this hand because there are so many choices depending on what comes.

How do you usually play it gemma?

gemma
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Re:What would you Discard

Post by gemma » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:08 am

Hehe After my recent standard of play, I\'m not sure my opinion should count for much. ;)

I think it depends where we are in the game. At the beginning I may cut the red as you do and perhaps hope to draw tiles to complete some concealed pungs.

If I\'m about 1/3 through, I would probably discard the 1 bam, deciding that seven pairs was the fastest hand I could make at this stage.

Somewhere before 2/3 through, I would probably be calling so I could be tenpai in the event that no one wins.

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Re:What would you Discard

Post by WorTeX » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:45 am

2-dots is the most reasonable option in my eyes here. I will not bother explaining, figure it out yourselves :)

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Re:What would you Discard

Post by Johnstonjamese » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:37 am

If you\'re thinking something that we haven\'t thought of yet, i\'d like to hear your reasoning. The goal of these questions are generating discussions and learning after all.

I\'ll take a stab at at either way though. While cutting the 2-dot leaves the possibility for all 3 outcomes just like the red-dra, if you cut the 2-pin then draw the 3-dot, you\'ll have to end up cutting a 5-dot if you\'re going to 3 pungs, which will leave an extra step in no matter what hand you\'re going for.

The only reason I can see to cut the 2-dot is if you think you\'re gonna draw the red-dra and are gonna start calling.

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Re:What would you Discard

Post by Johnstonjamese » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:45 am

@Gemma

I agree with you that depending on at what stage of the hand you\'re in, the decision could change easily. I\'d probably follow the same patter.

Knowing when to call is definitely one of my weaknesses but If you\'re 3/4ths of the way through and haven\'t progressed your hand at all, I guess it would be time to start calling if it\'s not too dangerous.

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Re:What would you Discard

Post by Poochy » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:47 am

I have to agree with WorTeX here. Discard the 2-dot, unless a red-dra has been discarded recently (or two have been revealed already). Also, I\'d go for toitoihou, unless I happened to pair up one of the unpaired tiles before I had a chance to pon or draw a third for one of the pairs.

My reasoning for the 2-dot:
If you keep the 2-dot and draw a 3-dot, you\'ve now got 4 pairs and have to discard one anyways. Meanwhile, a 3-dot could still be used in a 345 sequence if the need arises later. There\'s basically no reason to keep the 2-dot over the 4-dot or red-dra, and everything else is at least paired up.
Since I\'d go for toitoihou, drawing a second red-dra would give me the potential to have an extra han. Thus I\'d keep it a bit longer.

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Re:What would you Discard

Post by Johnstonjamese » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:57 am

If you keep both the 2-dot and the 4-dot though, if you draw the 3-dot and never end up getting the 3rd 5-dot, that could be your head potentially in the end couldn\'t it?

Or another way of thinking about it is if you keep the 2-dot, and draw both the 3-dot and the 5-dot, you\'re one step closer to both 3-pungs / 4-pungs. Then from there you can decide if you want to go for toi toi, 3 pungs, or something else.

Then again, I don\'t like dragons usually anyway, so i\'m more likely to cut a dragon out of habit. Usually the only time I keep them is if they come in a pair all ready or if I feel like i\'ll use them in a flush / half flush.

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Re:What would you Discard

Post by Poochy » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:47 am

Johnstonjamese wrote:If you keep both the 2-dot and the 4-dot though, if you draw the 3-dot and never end up getting the 3rd 5-dot, that could be your head potentially in the end couldn\'t it?
But if you use the 5-dot as your head, you\'ve got three other pairs that you can no longer use as the head.

And there are at most two 5-dot\'s left out there. To rely on drawing one of them is daft.

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Re:What would you Discard

Post by Johnstonjamese » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:59 am

I see the logic in it now.

I actually misread your original post too. You said you see no reason to keep the 2 over the 4 on the red. So I agree with you more on that now. My first 2 discards in this hand would still be the Red, then the 2 though. Hoping to draw another pair or to make a pair into a pung.

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Re:What would you Discard

Post by Shirluban » Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:17 pm

I don\'t see any reason to keep the 2-dot longer than red-dra.

Unless you pair it, the 2-dot is useless (Poochy have already explained why).

Unless you pair it, the red-dra is useless too. But I see at least 3 reasons to keep it:
1) It can make a good wait for seven pairs. Honors are harder to use in sets (no chii) and players focus more on 2-side waits, so it\'s generally a safer discard. -> A defensive player is more likely to discard an honor than a suit tile.
The problem to have a pair wait is out of purpose, since seven pairs (quite-)always ends on a pair wait.

2) If you\'re lucky enough to turn a single tile into a pon, it\'s better if it\'s with dragons, giving you an extra fan.

3) Some times, some players will rush on any valuable honor to get an easy yaku and end the hand quickly. By keeping the red, you prevent this (at the cost of your own hand).
Reasons to rush for a quick cheap hand are: you are East and want to keep the renchan, you\'re the leader in points and just want the game to end, you wish East will not stay East, ...



Anyway, considering 2-dot and red-dra are the least usable tiles in this hand, they will be the two first to be discarded. So discarding one before one other will make not make a big difference.
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Re:What would you Discard

Post by MortenA » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:05 am

I\'d cut the 2-dot as well.

But as for going for the pairs or the pungs it depends a lot.

Depending on who you are playing the pungs could be a faster hand but much harder to play defensively.

I might pung early from the player to my right but (almost)never from the player to my left.

I think it very much comes down to knowing the other players and especialy how you think they percieve you. If you can pung early and have the right table image against the right people that will scare them almost as much as riiching.

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Re:What would you Discard

Post by Ruro » Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:12 am

I would go with the 2-dot too, and try to make a toi-toi with this kind of hand.
If i get another red-dra i would consider going out with only a yakuhai (1000 points yea...) if its early in the game (1st or 2nd round) or i would become the dealer by doing this (so that means i would be sitting at south)

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