WWYD 2012-02-16

or2az · Post by **or2az** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:51 am

Time for my mahjong lesson. Here is a situation where I wasn't sure of what to discard.
I decided on the

because there were two

showing on the table. But what if there wasn't??
Anyway, I drew the

and I was in the same fix all over again. What do I discard?
This time, I weakened and tossed out the red

It made it through but 2 turns later, east ronned south for more than 1200, won the game, and I came in 2nd.
What say you?

Ozball · Post by **Ozball** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:52 am

First case I'd probably toss the

it doesn't bring you any closer to tenpai, and you have 4 mentsu with good waits already (

,

) so you should be aiming for Pinfu tossing the second

and then the red

as you get closer to tenpai. So unless a tile completes any of the above mentsu then chuck it. The only exception is if you draw a

before you toss the red 5, in which case you can break on of the other incomplete mentsu at that time since you're replacing it with another of the same kind and it doesn't change you distance from tenpai.

In the second example, again chuck the

. The two way wait setup is better unless you're going for all pairs (and you shouldn't be in this case.

Written on my phone in a rush so sorry for any typos.

Iapetus · Post by **Iapetus** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:36 pm

The hand already has 2 dora, so sacrificing speed for a red 5p chance is unnecessary. The only meaningful thing it can grant is a pinfu dora3 dama ron on 1st or 3rd, a fairly rare case. It's better to take the fastest possible future iishanten. Drop the red 5.

7m or 4s as Ozball suggests is still ok. 8m like you did was really bad - even with 2 9m down, 69m is still a great wait.

Referee · Post by **Referee** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:52 pm

Second hand, if draw

, discard dora

for Sanshoku?

or2az · Post by **or2az** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:06 pm

All good suggestions. Thanks guys. Only, I dont quite see why my discard of the

was REALLY BAD instead of NOT THAT GOOD, unless, it has something to do with going for pinfu. I just wanted to cry. (just kidding)

Ozball · Post by **Ozball** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:40 am

or2az wrote:All good suggestions. Thanks guys. Only, I dont quite see why my discard of the was REALLY BAD instead of NOT THAT GOOD, unless, it has something to do with going for pinfu. I just wanted to cry. (just kidding)

It partially has to do with going for Pinfu but only because it's an issue of waits and number of tiles.

If you discard the

then you're essentially aiming for chitoitsu (Seven Pairs) which is still three tiles away from tenpai (same as if you'd gone for Pinfu) but your final wait will be a lot worse. The best you can hope for us a three tile wait on a

,

or

. (assuming none get discarded in the time it takes you to get to tenpai)

Where as if you discard the

, the

or the

you're looking at a 7 tile wait on the

/

and still a 6 tile wait on either the

/

wait or the

/

wait. All of which are at least double the number of tiles you'd be waiting on for chitoitsu. If you go for something in between (Eg something with a closed triple in it) the you're sacrificing 1-Han from Pinfu for it. While San Ankou (three concealed triples) would be worth more than Pinfu, the number of tiles available to get you to tenpai with it are quite low, and are not really worth the risk)

Edit: also I think there is something with the number of tiles available to get you to tenpai in there somewhere. Eg while chitoitsu starts with more than Pinfu it drops of a lot faster as you get closer to tenpai. But I don't have the time at the moment to run the numbers to properly prove it. Might add it tonight if I have time.

or2az · Post by **or2az** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:47 am

When I tossed the

, I never even thought about seven pairs. I saw that two nines were out and didn't want to get burned by tossing the

or the red 5.
( Unfortunately, I neglected the 4

that were still around). I had 2 doras ( maybe 3), there were still 46 tiles left at the time, and I was only 3000 pts back. I wanted the quick win to get back in the lead and when I drew the

, I had to toss the red 5. didn't matter anyway.
Incidentally, directly underneath the number of tiles left is another word x 0. What does that refer to?

Ozball · Post by **Ozball** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:27 am

It translates roughly to "bar deposit". (or maybe deposited bars?) My guess is that it's the number of reach sticks that are in the pot currently due to a draw the previous round when someone reached.

or2az · Post by **or2az** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:05 am

That helped. Found the info in Barticles guide (p27). KYOTAKU, or Reach Bank. A deposit area for riichi scoring sticks. Good job. Thanks

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