WWYD 2014-07-28

or2az · Post by **or2az** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:50 am

1st hand of east/south match

Ozball · Post by **Ozball** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:40 pm

I'd chuck the non-red

. You're in iishanten already, and if you draw anything out of the 1-4 of dots or East you're in tenpai. Or if you get desperate you can pon East and go for a shampon wait on the 2-3 pin. Keeping the pair of 5p just because one is red feels like a trap. They're not connected to anything, and you final wait will likely be worst because of it. Also there is 1 5p in West's pond so the chances of you pulling the final one are even lower, so your best bet would be to drop the East's and shift your pair to the 5p's. But there are no Easts in the pond at all, so I'd be very wary about discarding them. The 5p on the other hand is safer. It's totally safe to West, and East has discarded both the 2p and 8p while North has discarded the 8p. Not 100% safe, (particularly to North) but a lot better than the Easts.

So yeah, forego the extra han, it's not worth it. Also as for why the non-red rather than the red one: If by chance it DOES deal into someone's hand, you don't want to give them the extra han.

or2az · Post by **or2az** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:58 am

I decided on the

.
Tossing the 5 because it is not connected to anything would leave the red 5 not connected to anything and it would probably have to be the next discard.
I didn't want that. I'd prefer using the 5's as the pair, rather than the 2's. There are one of each in the discards so one of each would be left.
The final waits might be slightly less favorable but I would risk it for the extra han (and not having to give that red 5 to someone else).

Krabman · Post by **Krabman** » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:49 pm

I get this feeling that all 1p and 4p are distributed between other players.

I'd go with

. It keeps the chance for Ippeiko. It'll most likely be pon'd but whatever, it's only E1 ;p

Ignatius · Post by **Ignatius** » Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:18 pm

Krabman wrote:I get this feeling that all 1p and 4p are distributed between other players.

I'd go with . It keeps the chance for Ippeiko. It'll most likely be pon'd but whatever, it's only E1 ;p

I would go the same as krabman.

or2az · Post by **or2az** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:18 am

Which iipeiko are you referring to?
If you feel that all the 1p and 4p are distributed between the other players, how do you expect to get them?
Iipeiko must be in a concealed hand and you would need to draw either two 1p or two 4p to make it work.

I thought that you were perhaps referring to seven pairs, all pungs, or 3 concealed pungs, but then I don't think you would discard east.

Ignatius · Post by **Ignatius** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:23 am

or2az wrote:Which iipeiko are you referring to?
If you feel that all the 1p and 4p are distributed between the other players, how do you expect to get them?
Iipeiko must be in a concealed hand and you would need to draw either two 1p or two 4p to make it work.

Oh yeah true. In this case maybe I would try to go for a toitoi and even a san ankou throwing the

. Because, hell yeah, why not try that?

or2az · Post by **or2az** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:33 am

You could go that route, but it would place you further away from tenpai than by tossing the

or the

.

saitym · Post by **saitym** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:16 am

I will discard the

simply because it's the tile that has the most number of tiles to tenpai as well as the highest potential to get a good wait.

discarding

and therefore getting

means that when you pon the

you get a bad wait of either

pair wait or a

kanchan single wait. The main way this hand is going to win is by ponning the

and therefore you must ensure a good wait after the

pon and therefore

discard is not recommended

discarding

and getting

is not recommended as, although you get a good wait of

double sided wait after the

pon, when you draw the

yourself you are forced to riichi with a pair wait of either

or

which is not bad but just worse compared to

discard which I will explain.

with the

discard you get

, and whilst you still get the same benefits after

pon with the good double sided wait of

, when you draw the

yourself, you get the almighty

double sided wait you can riichi on. you may argue that there is a point differential with the pair wait including the

which may achieve the higher average score but in modern mahjong, it is generally considered better to wait on the hand with the highest probability of winning unless there is a significant expected score differential.

double sided wait is considered a much better wait than pair wait including

and if you consider the RED

, you can still achieve mangan with riichi tsumo dora +ura and therefore there actually isnt much of a score advantage in including the

as your wait. even without the RED

it is still considered better to riichi with a

double sided wait than a

pair wait. ( unless you are oya where double east pair wait becomes slightly better than riichi only double sided wait)

with the 1p draw

and

discard both end up with the same wait of

wait so

discard wins out on the difference in

self draw.

(I'm assuming you are south( I've never played this game so I don't know how the name tiles are placed))I will also point out that the

in

does not actually add to the number of tiles needed for tenpai, and as I have pointed out that double sided wait are generally considered better so even if you draw the

from

, It's generally considered better to riichi on a

double sided wait leaving

actually quite useless except for

chi (more exceptions= you are oya/ you are desperate not to riichi and therefore will wait on

when you draw the

without using riichi). Although leaving

chi can help, I think keeping the RED

instead of the

from the discard before is a bigger deal in trying to get a higher potential score out from the hand.

or2az · Post by **or2az** » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:04 am

A very informative analysis. I was able to follow all of it except the end where you suggest keeping the red

which I just discarded in favor of the

.
That would be a tough call for me to make, even if I was able to think of it.

WWYD 2014-07-28

comments welcome

WWYD 2014-07-28

Re: WWYD 2014-07-28

Re: WWYD 2014-07-28

Re: WWYD 2014-07-28

Re: WWYD 2014-07-28

Re: WWYD 2014-07-28

Re: WWYD 2014-07-28

Re: WWYD 2014-07-28

Re: WWYD 2014-07-28

Re: WWYD 2014-07-28