Discard quiz from strategy book (riichi edition)

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saitym
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Discard quiz from strategy book (riichi edition)

Post by saitym » Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:43 pm

These discard quiz comes from a particular strategy book published based on this site http://yabejp.web.fc2.com/mahjong/tactics.html (it's in Japanese but as a reference)

I won't just write down all of them and they will be slightly modified (to avoid copyright problems if there is any in mahjong discard quizzes) but with roughly the same answer . I will post the answers in a week time or so, so make sure you've answered them by then. The answers need reasoning on why you did/did not riichi and for the discard of your choice

Q1) 2-crak 2-crak 2-crak 4-crak 6-crak 2-dot 3-dot 4-dot 5-dot 6-dot 7-dot 7-bam 8-bam tsumo 8-bam (dora 8-crak )
situation - south 2, you are oya,4th discard points: you -3900, third -28600, second -30600, first -35900


Q2) 1-bam 2-bam 3-bam 4-bam 5-bam 6-bam 7-bam 5-dot 4-crak 4-crak 5-crak-red 6-crak 7-crak tsumo 5-dot (dora 1-dot )
south 2, you are oya, 4th discard,points; you 17300, 3rd-18200, 2nd-31600, 1st 32900


EDIT should be 3-crak 3-crak 4-crak 5-crak-red 6-crak for the manzu


Q3) :south :south 2-bam 3-bam 4-bam 6-dot 6-dot 6-dot 7-dot 8-dot 5-crak 6-crak 6-crak tsumo 9-dot (dora 1-crak )

south 2, 4th discard, you are child, points= you -11600, 3rd 15100, 2nd 23600, 1st 49700


Q4) 1-dot 1-dot 6-dot 7-dot 3-bam 4-bam 5-bam 8-crak 9-crak 9-crak red-dra red-dra red-dra tsumo 5-dot (dora 8-crak )
east 3, you are child, 3rd discard in, points - you 19500, third 21700, second 27600, first 31200
Last edited by saitym on Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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or2az
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Re: Discard quiz from strategy book (riichi edition)

Post by or2az » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:19 am

Q1) Way out there in 4th place. Discard 7-bam :riichi YES
No yaku. What do you got to lose?

Q2) Still in 4th, not by much. Discard 1-bam :riichi YES
Tanyao and a red five. Go for it.

Q3) Again in 4th. Discard 5-crak :riichi YES
Shanpon again, possible south yaku, some might choose ryanmen

Q4) 4th, but lots of time (assuming hanchan). Discard 8-crak :riichi YES
Dragons and 2 dora, lots of points

As you can see, I like to riichi. (and I hate 4th place)
And with ura dora, who knows?

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Re: Discard quiz from strategy book (riichi edition)

Post by Iapetus » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:59 am

Q1 7s discard riichi. I need points, I need renchan, early riichi accomplishes both.

Q2. 1s discard dama. Get to tenpai since 3900 direct or 6000 tsumo is quite good in case it happens. Wait for a better wait since 6 different tiles give that. Ignore ittsuu for 567 sanshoku, tanyao, and tenpai.

Q3. 5m discard riichi. I'd rather get a draw than a riichi nomi win since points are needed, and there's an okay chance nan will come out from a defender.

Q4. 8m discard riichi. 9m has better EV at a glance, but when you consider uradora 8m is better for tsumo and the terminals are far more likely to be discarded than the indicator, so considering those 8m discard should have better EV. This assumes none have been discarded yet.

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Re: Discard quiz from strategy book (riichi edition)

Post by saitym » Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:49 pm

Here are the answers

Q1) riichi 7-bam


Q2) 4-crak


Q3) riichi 5-crak


Q4) riichi 8-crak


If you have any questions please ask, I can put explanations for each one if requested but I can't be bothered right now so sorry :(

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Re: Discard quiz from strategy book (riichi edition)

Post by or2az » Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:23 pm

I could use an explanation on Q2 although I don't think I'm going to agree with it in this case. I can see not calling riichi and perhaps getting a better (ryanmen) wait but taking a step back from tenpai in this case....well....I wouldn't do it. Tanyao and a red five seem to be enough here to avoid 4th and I don't think I have a good shot at 2nd. Maybe I'm wrong.
Perhaps the 1-bam would be the next discard, but why wait, you may win in the meantime.



Incidentally, (Iapetus), after discarding the 1-bam , are the 6 tiles that yield a better wait the 4-dot 6-dot 3-crak 5-crak 6-crak 8-crak.

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Re: Discard quiz from strategy book (riichi edition)

Post by Iapetus » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:01 am

or2az wrote:I could use an explanation on Q2 although I don't think I'm going to agree with it in this case. I can see not calling riichi and perhaps getting a better (ryanmen) wait but taking a step back from tenpai in this case....well....I wouldn't do it. Tanyao and a red five seem to be enough here to avoid 4th and I don't think I have a good shot at 2nd. Maybe I'm wrong.
Perhaps the 1-bam would be the next discard, but why wait, you may win in the meantime.



Incidentally, (Iapetus), after discarding the 1-bam , are the 6 tiles that yield a better wait the 4-dot 6-dot 3-crak 5-crak 6-crak 8-crak.
Yeah, that's right. In the 4-crack discard case there's 8 tiles, 3-bam 5-bam 6-bam 8-bam 3-crak 5-crak 6-crak 8-crak .

I could also use the explanation, since this is the one case where there's disagreement.

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Re: Discard quiz from strategy book (riichi edition)

Post by saitym » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:14 pm

I'll translate the answers in the strategy book.

There is actually two explanation for question 2, one from the author of the book, and one from the editor, (you may know him) fukuchi.

Author: by throwing the 4-crak ( 3-crak edit ) tile you can leave two very strong shapes leftover to get a good tenpai wait (talking about the 1234567s and 4567m) and by throwing the 1-bam (dama) you lose any change in wait using the souzu but instead you get a good wait by drawing either the 4-dot or 6-dot tile. However in this particular circumstance, by drawing the 8-bam (itssu potential as well) and 3-bam , you get a 3 sided wait and therefore I have decided that not taking tenpai is more advantageous in this case. if the souzu was in the shape of 1-bam 2-bam 3-bam 4-bam 4-bam 5-bam 6-bam , 1-bam (dama) is instead more advantageous.(due to lack of three sided waits potential)

Fukuchi: an oya who is down in points should just riichi whatever the wait but in this case the hand is too good, a hand that can be a game changer. Being so early on, the answer should be 3-dot to maximise the possibility of wait being at least double sided. In actual game play, I will likely throw the 1-bam but ideally you want to be able to throw 4-crak every time

My Comment I actually personally chose 1-bam (dama) and just as a reference, they did a questionnaire and for this question only 38% of people got it right (out of like 58 established? mahjong players) but I definitely understand where they are coming from. Not taking tenpai early on to maximise the possibility of a good wait is not rare and usually considered the more correct choice in particular circumstances. The question is, is this case that particular circumstance, and it is definitely close between 1-bam (dama) and 4-crak ( 3-crak edit ). 1-bam (riichi) is however generally considered not too good if it's still early on




EDIT I acually noticed a mistake in one of the questions, slight one, don't know if you would have changed you answer but the manzu should actually be 3-crak 3-crak 4-crak 5-crak-red 6-crak so your unlikely to get sanshoku while keeping tanyao My bad :( ( the question I gave initially will probably be 1-bam favoured more so than the edited one)

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Re: Discard quiz from strategy book (riichi edition)

Post by Mauro » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:04 pm

I see both or2az and Iapetus would go for shanpon over ryanmen or penchan; why's that? I can kinda understand penchan (same number of tiles, more tile types), but I was wondering about ryanmen.

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Re: Discard quiz from strategy book (riichi edition)

Post by or2az » Sat Sep 12, 2015 2:23 am

If you are referring to Q3, we went shanpon because, as stated, It was the South round and we needed the extra yaku points.
If the pair were north winds, we probably would go ryanmen.

In Q2, I had no choice since I chose to riichi, whereas Iapetus decided to remain dama because 6 tiles would have given him a better wait, ryanmen over shanpon.

Reminder... as I mentioned before, try to look at the whole picture. Not every decision is cut and dry, such as a ryanmen wait is always better than a shanpon.

Also, you may enjoy reading this thread. http://reachmahjong.com/en/forum/viewto ... 247#p57095
Seven pages (almost 100 posts) relating to strategy and tile efficiency questions from game situations spanning the course of a year.
It will take a while but I guarantee you will find it very informative and educational.

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Re: Discard quiz from strategy book (riichi edition)

Post by Mauro » Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:57 am

I was referring to Q2, sorry for the confusion; thanks for the link, I'll read it as soon as I have time.

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