Quick rules question

[July]

Okay, this is just a question that\'s bothering me.
If you reach with a hand like:

6-crak 6-crak 6-crak 6-crak 7-crak 8-crak 5-bam 6-bam 7-bam 7-bam 8-bam 9-bam 8-dot 8-dot

and draw the 9c, can you declare a kong?

[Ruro]

I think you can\'t because that would give you +1 tile and that seems totally off. And there is an other problem...this hand is composed of 14 tiles (and riichi uses 13 in hand and 1 drawn). About declaring kan while in reach : it\'s perfectly allowed. the only time you can\'t declare kan on your reach is when it changes your wait (while in reach your wait can not be changed by anything)

[July]

I know you can kong during reach, man. I just wonder if you can here, because it\'s a weird situation.

Also, my bad for making a complete hand instead of a tenpai one. Hehe~

[chalwa]

you cant make kan not only when it changes your wait bu also when it changes your hand composition. In other words you can make kan after riichi when you want tu upgrade pon that is unrelatadet with other tiles. So in this situation you cant make kan, vos those 6man are counted as pon 666 and 678 chi so when you get 9 you change your hand composition to 789 chi.

[HotelFSR]

You can only declare a kong during reach when you draw the tile which completes your kong.

So in this case you may not declare the kong.

[Barticle]

In other words you can make kan after riichi when you want to upgrade pon that is unrelated with other tiles.

This is a lesson I have learnt the hard way!

I had a hand including the following tiles; I´d called riichi and was waiting on another set so I was counting these five tiles as a completed chow and pair.

5-crak 6-crak 7-crak 7-crak 7-crak

I drew another 7 Craks and the game offered me a kong which I accepted without thinking... but of course it left me with two incomplete sets.

Play continued until the end of the hand which ended in a draw and I got hit with a Mangan-level penalty for "Illegal Riichi". (I assume I would´ve gotten away with it if another player had won.)

Suffice to say I learnt my lesson! I think this is the only case where the game (Yakuza 2) actually lets you make an illegal move. :dry:

PS July - might I enquire, what flavour is your albatross? :silly:

[iandstanley]

Okay, this is just a question thats bothering me.
If you reach with a hand like:

6-crak6-crak6-crak 6-crak7-crak8-crak 5-bam6-bam7-bam 7-bam8-bam9-bam 8-dot8-dot

and draw the 9c, can you declare a kong?

This is an impossible situation to have that hand AND draw 9-crak ... count your tiles ... you have 14 in hand already

1 6-crak 2 6-crak 3 6-crak 4 6-crak 5 7-crak 6 8-crak 7 5-bam
8 6-bam 9 7-bam 10 7-bam 11 8-bam 12 9-bam 13 8-dot 14 8-dot

The hand is already complete


One thing you must remember is to be very careful considering if you can kong whilst in riichi. You must understand all the winning tile combinations. Missing one and you will void the hand incurring the appropriate penalties.


Maybe you meant
Going back to a similar problem to the one above (with 13 tiles - as above less 7 bamboo) ....

If you were waiting on a bamboo tile(s) with a hand, say
6-crak6-crak6-crak 6-crak7-crak8-crak ? 5-bam6-bam ? 7-bam8-bam9-bam 8-dot8-dot (waiting for 4-bam or 7-bam) then you would have to discard the 9-crak as your hand would be altered


A Similar Problem
You have draw say 6-crak

Your hand now stands as
6-crak6-crak6-crak 6-crak7-crak8-crak 5-bam6-bam7-bam 7-bam8-bam9-bam 8-dot8-dot

It is the last hand and you need to declare riichi to bump up your points to come top and gain those extra uma.

You could go out and take a lesser uma, but it is early in the game. You cant ditch the 6-crak without signalling the 9-crak if you have made ANY hesitation whatsoever!

Some rules (house?) allow the setting aside of a concealed kong without showing any of the tiles. If this is allowed then there is a solution ....

Probably the best option here is to (1) declare the hidden kong, (2) draw an extra tile from the kong box (3) discard that tile declaring riichi. This would leave you with a wait for 9-crak without showing the 6-crak to everyone.

You really must know your rules here ...

1. EMA - concealed kongs must have two tiles shown
2. JMPL-A/B .. I believe are the same
3. Futami Kogisha Rules described in Futami Kogisha\'s export set are the same
4. Every online riichi game I have played does the same.

The only way to avoid this dammed if you do/dont scenario under the above rules is to be keeping a careful look ahead at you possibilities. At least one tile before this you will have to decide on your response if a 6-crak tile appears.

All experienced players will be doing this anyway and it is a useful tool to learn as a beginner will disclose a lot about his hand when he thinks for a while before discarding as he reaches. It may not be spot on but a experienced player will often consider the question why did he take so long considering the discard and declaring reach.


Example of an LEGAL declaration of Kong during Riichi.
As a rule you have to declare your in-hand kong prior to reach/discard ... as Hotel says you can draw a konging tile to add to your pon e.g....
6-crak6-crak6-crak 6-dot7-dot8-dot ? 5-bam6-bam ? 7-bam8-bam9-bam 8-dot8-dot would be valid to add to kong on self-drawn 6-crak as it does not change the winning opportunities.


Example of an illegal declaration of Kong.

1-bam1-bam1-bam 2-bam 4-bam4-bam4-bam 7-crak7-crak7-crak red-drared-drared-dra since melding of Kong
1-bam 1-bam 1-bam1-bam would remove the possibility to go out on 1-bam2-bam3-bam. Note that the fact that calling tiles remain unaltered does not alone guarantee that the declaration is legal.


Other Players House Rules
Some players allow a non-altering kong (a kong whose tiles cannot be used as part of another set in your hand) to be declared after ... but in all the english rules I have seen that is not allowed because it is an upgrading of the scoring elements and therefore a breach of the rules.