Two questions.

[L3ho]

Hi.

First:
Let\'s say that the game is tied, two players where in tenpai and two weren\'t.
Let\'s say that there was one counter (honba?) present. Are the counter points added to the penalty payed by the non-tempai players? Or are counters used only for games that end with someone winning?

Second:
Situation: dora is 4pin. Let\'s say i riichi\'d and have a hidden pon of 4pin. Then, after i made riichi i draw a 4pin from the wall. Can i improve my hidden pon to kan? I think not, because it changes my hand (adds +1 fan). But i want to be sure.

Regards
L3ho

[chalwa]

First: Honba only adds when you win. When there is tie the amount that is paind is always the same: 3000 (so in your case its 1500 for one tenpai player and 1500 for second tenpai player)

Second: There are conditions about making Kan (you can read in polish about it here: http://kgj.pjwstk.edu.pl/chombo.php (punkt 5). But if it dosnt change your mentsu (sets) and wait pattern its oke do improve pon to kan and get more dora - because it dont give you more yaku, just more fan, as dora is bonus.

[L3ho]

Thx Chalwa.

How about this: I made riichi, and i have a chi in my hand, let\'s say 3-4-5 man. The 5 man is normal. Now in one of my turns i draw a red 5 man. Can i switch it with my 5 man from my hand after the riichi was made?

[Shirluban]

No.

Once you have declared riichi, the only \"change\" you can make is turning a pon into a kan if:
a) The pon can only be considered as a pon.
b) You draw the 4th tile.

For example:
a) You can NOT improve 222333444 to 2222(kan) 333 444 because it can be seen as three pon (222 333 444) or three chii (234 234 234).

b) If you have 444 456 and draw the 7, you can NOT declare a 4444 kan.


Exchanging a regular 5 with a red 5 is forbidden because nobody can tell you\'re not changing your hand.

Improving a pon into a kan is different: you keep all the tiles you had at the time of the riichi declaration, and you show the tile you\'re adding. When you declare a win, or tenpai, it\'s easy to check if your kan was valid.

[L3ho]

Thank you.

Every time i think that i know it all, and can play without any doubts something happens:)
It\'s just a great game.

[hirohurl]

Perfect answers to your questions from Chalwa and Shirluban.

Thank you.

Every time i think that i know it all, and can play without any doubts something happens:)
It\'s just a great game.

Don\'t you feel that someone is "getting at you" sometimes! I know I did.

Yep, it\'s a great game in all its subtlety and variety.