San An Kou and San Kantsu

[Ignatius]

New day, new question.

It is posible to mix the San An Kou with San Kantsu if the three Kans are all concealed?

I saw it once, and I´m wondering if was a wrong Han counting.

[WorTeX]

Uncommon situation, but it\'s valid san ankou, if the three kongs are concealed.

[Ignatius]

Oh, thank you very much!
I love when everything is clear.
Thank you.

[azn86.jedi]

I do believe that if all 3 ankan are declared (ie you reveal them) the sanankou and sankantsu yaku are still valid as well.

[chalwa]

I do believe that if all 3 ankan are declared (ie you reveal them) the sanankou and sankantsu yaku are still valid as well.

I dont think so, as "an" means hidden, conceald, when you have 3 kantsu melded their name is "minkan" - melded kantsu, so they cant be "ankan" - hidden kantsu. as they are not "an", they cant be counted as sanankou yaku which requires 3 "ankou" (also these can be changed to "ankan"), but you cant say that minkan is counting as ankou.

[Ignatius]

I´m with Chalwa, the Koutsu (A.K.A.concealed Pon) need concealed Kan (Kantsu) to be added to the San An Kou.

[Shirluban]

I do believe that if all 3 ankan are declared (ie you reveal them) the sanankou and sankantsu yaku are still valid as well.

Your use of the word "declared" is confusing.

You have a concealed kan when you draw yourself the 4 tiles.
You have a melded kan when you draw 3 tiles and claim the 4th, or when you expose a pon and draw the 4th (this is a promoted kan).

In either way, the kan is declared (you said you have it) and revealed (you shown it).


If you have 3 concealed kan, you count sanankou (3 concealed pon) and sankantsu (3 kan).
If you have 3 melded kan, you count only sankantsu (3 kan).

[azn86.jedi]

i apologize for the confusion in my post. i probably meant that if you had 3 concealed koutsu and you so happen to draw the respective tiles to make all three of them concealed kans which in turn you declare and reveal (am i getting this right, Shirluban?) you are allowed both sanankou and sankantsu. I suppose one would be crazy enough to do that if they want to try for rinshan kaihou...

Ignore me if I still haven\'t gotten that right >__<

I suppose as well it\'s slightly different matter if your hand was in suuankou tanki tsumo (4 concealed pons waiting on the draw to complete the pair)

[Shirluban]

You are right.

When you have a yakuman you don\'t count other yaku since your score is limited to yakuman.
If the local rule allows multiple yakuman, you sum up \"only\" yakuman and not the lowers yaku.


If you have more questions, feel free to ask.

[Referee]

i probably meant that if you had 3 concealed koutsu and you so happen to draw the respective tiles to make all three of them concealed kans which in turn you declare and reveal (am i getting this right, Shirluban?) you are allowed both sanankou and sankantsu. I suppose one would be crazy enough to do that if they want to try for rinshan kaihou...

Been watching Saki lately? ;)

[Referee]

i probably meant that if you had 3 concealed koutsu and you so happen to draw the respective tiles to make all three of them concealed kans which in turn you declare and reveal (am i getting this right, Shirluban?) you are allowed both sanankou and sankantsu. I suppose one would be crazy enough to do that if they want to try for rinshan kaihou...

Been watching Saki lately? ;)

[azn86.jedi]

Alright Ref, you caught me :woohoo:

I did watch Saki a while back, which rekindled my interest in mahjong in general. I said before somewhere else that I usually play some variant of Singaporean mahjong with friends, but Saki was what got me interested in Riichi / Japanese mahjong in the first place.

been playing this japanese flash mahjong game at gamedesign.jp as practice for both gamewise and hand score calculating... Am proud to say i got rinshan kaihou a few times. It\'s one VERY rare yaku, i have to admit.

<-- just ordered a Sango set from Dave Hurley\'s site :cheer:

[Barticle]

i got rinshan kaihou a few times. It\'s one VERY rare yaku, i have to admit.

It\'s pretty rare but far from being the rarest.

Looking up the match log stats from Tenhou I printed last year, here are the ones that occur least frequently...

0.326% Rinshan Kaihou (after a kong)
0.197% Daburu Riichi (double reach)
0.152% Shou San Gen (little three drags)
0.096% Honroutou (all terminals & honours)
0.063% San Shoku Doukou (triple pung)
0.057% Chankan (robbing the kong)
0.055% Ryanpeikou (twice pure double chow)
0.007% San Kantsu (three kongs)

That last one is more rare than half the yakuman hands!

In contrast, the top of the yaku list is Riichi which occured in 45.7% of winning hands.

just ordered a Sango set from Dave Hurley\'s site :cheer:

Cool! Enjoy. B)

[azn86.jedi]

ahaha good stats. it still has less than a 1% chance of happening... that\'s rare enough for me XD