Pao Rules/Insurance Penalties...

[Goldeneye]

I posted my most recent Yakuman hand on this forum a couple of nights ago, and if there was a particular Pao rule in force, the person who gave me all four of the triplets would have been forced to pay the entire 64k, because I self drew the last honor tile needed. The dealer went broke (rather unfairly) instead of the person across from me (who was North) as a result.

Unfortunately, on the site that I got it in, the Pao rule is only in force for Dai San Gen and Dai Suu Shi hands.

Who else here plays with more stringent Pao rules that also cover Tsuu Ii Sou, Ryuu Ii Sou and Chin Rou Tou hands?

One of the newest sites currently in beta wants to enforce the Pao rule for Dai San Gen, Dai Suu Shi **and** Suu Kan Tsu. I wonder how fair is it to extend Pao to Suu Kan Tsu, considering it is virtually the rarest Yakuman to make.

[Tom Sloper]

I wonder how fair is it to extend Pao to Suu Kan Tsu, considering it is virtually the rarest Yakuman to make.

Fairness is in the eye of the players at the table. If the four at the table don't like that rule, they don't use it.
If it's not a question of tables, but a question of house rules or tournament rules or software rules, you can vote with your feet or your wallet.
If you don't like a jansou's rules, you don't have to play there.
If you don't like a tournament's rules, you don't have to attend.
If you don't like a software program's rules, you can play something else.

[Shirluban]

on the site that I got it in, the Pao rule is only in force for Dai San Gen and Dai Suu Shi hands.

I believe it's the standard.
It's not very useful anyway, as Dai San Gen and Dai Suu Shi are not seen very often, even with rules that don't have the Pao rule.

One of the newest sites currently in beta wants to enforce the Pao rule for Dai San Gen, Dai Suu Shi **and** Suu Kan Tsu.

I wonder if they also stock supplies in case of a zombie apocalypse
As Tom said, you're free to play the rule you want.

[Barticle]

Who else here plays with more stringent Pao rules that also cover Tsuu Ii Sou, Ryuu Ii Sou and Chin Rou Tou hands?

I'd support the broader application to all yakuman that can be played open. If someone drops the tile that completes the final open set of a blatant yakuman then they deserve to pay.

Some rules (I'm thinking internationally now, not Japanese) even apply it to a flush.

I wonder how fair is it to extend Pao to Suu Kan Tsu, considering it is virtually the rarest Yakuman to make.

As you note, it's incredibly rare - I've never even completed a *three* kongs hand - so it's almost irrelevant whether they include it or not.

Suu Kantsu is slightly different to the other cases because it's not immediately apparent which tiles are dangerous. With the other yakuman(s) it's the third dragon (1 type), the fourth wind (1), any remaining honours (4), any remaining "pure green" tiles (3) or any remaining terminals (3). With three kongs exposed there are 31 other types of tile that in theory could make a fourth kong, although you would expect to be several turns into the hand by that stage and a fair proportion of those would already have been discarded, making a kong impossible.

I wonder if they also stock supplies in case of a zombie apocalypse

Yeah, sadly any yakuman is pretty rare, and hopefully even then there aren't too many players that would deal into a fully exposed one.

Quite off-topic, but amusing... Last month someone made a formal "Freedom of Information" request to the city council of Leicester (UK) asking for details of their plans for response to zombie apocalypse. The council was legally required to respond and had to admit that shockingly they were woefully unprepared for zombie attack.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-le ... e-13713798

This inevitably led to a major zombie invasion in Leicester the following week.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-le ... e-13823427

[Torgo]

I wonder how fair is it to extend Pao to Suu Kan Tsu, considering it is virtually the rarest Yakuman to make.

As you note, it's incredibly rare - I've never even completed a *three* kongs hand - so it's almost irrelevant whether they include it or not.

When playing MCR style on Mahjongtime.com, I had two consecutive hands with three kongs. The first one was not completed before someone else went out, but I did win the second. I know kongs are very different in riichi, but I thought I'd share anyway.

[Senechal]

I wonder how fair is it to extend Pao to Suu Kan Tsu, considering it is virtually the rarest Yakuman to make.

It's not a question of fair or very fair here. It follows the exact same logic as winning off a replacement tile obtained from an open kan.

If you are dealing live tiles (sheng-pai: any tile you can't see a copy of on the board) you are playing dangerously and will end up liable for it. Of course, there's a difference between doing so when you are starting a hand, and when you are 12 turns in with three kans on the table. In that case, learn to drop out of the hand without making yourself extremely vulnerable.


The equivalent chess example is moving your queen next to the opponent's king, undefended (say, eating the pawn in d2/e2/f2) without covering it. Yummy.