Yakuman Club

Japanese Reach Mahjong Rules. Strategy, news, sets - anything!

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Re: Yakuman Club

Post by Shirluban » Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:52 pm

That's a very nice and improbable win!

xKime wrote:There was a discarded :west a discarded :north a discarded :west and 2 :east discarded.
I believe it was more like: "There was a discarded :west a discarded :north a discarded :south and 2 :east discarded." :wink:
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Re: Yakuman Club

Post by Referee » Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:56 pm

A near miss, or rather, a near near miss, but I have to vent. Playing Mahjong in the Billy vs Snakeman game, I had this hand built when Right won off someone else with Riichi only.
1-dot 1-dot 2-dot 2-dot 3-dot 3-dot 3-dot 5-dot 5-dot 6-dot 8-dot 8-dot 9-dot
Dora indicator: 2-dot Ura-dora Indicator: 5-dot

This hand is iishanten for Kazoe Yakuman in several ways

Draw 4-dot and discard 9-dot waiting for 4-dot 7-dot Riichi, Iipeikou, Pinfu, Menchin, Dora 4
Draw 6-dot and discard 3-dot waiting for 9-dot Riichi, Chiitoitsu, Menchin, Dora 4
Draw 7-dot and discard 9-dot waiting for 4-dot Riichi, Iipeikou, Menchin, Dora 4. Kazoe Yakuman with Tsumo or Iipatsu
Draw 9-dot and discard 3-dot waiting for 6-dot Riichi, Chiitoitsu, Menchin, Dora 4

Instead, someone gets off by paying 1000 points. GRRR.

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Re: Yakuman Club

Post by Fat*Dragon » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:50 pm

@xKime
Well, you did go against a riichi, pushed and won the hand. Examining the decission based on the result is not the way to go. If he reached on the sixth turn with a 79, that's not so bad; the wait isn't likely to get better, and it's early.
Sure afterwards it is easy to say that a play was this or that. And yes, I pushed my hand because I knew that this was a chance for "dai san gen". It could have also resulted in -12.000 points for me... But that is a risk and reward thing I guess. Ending the game with one shot or trailing the pack with 13.000 points... This time I chose risk but usually I'm more the player who likes to wait and give the hand some extra kick. There are times where a fast hand seems the way to go but I rather rely on a "hard" hand where you already got your han together. Playing stronger players on Tenhou showed me that bad waits can result in very hard hits. I guess this trend strengthens to more you climb up the dan ladder. And also playing opponents which always "go for it" benefit from bad waits. So I would have waited for another option to get at least pinfu and then play silently untill I get another dora or an opponent throws my winner...
By the way, I saw exact the same play today as yesterday, where I drew my yakuman. A guy reaching on the 6th draw, waiting to complete his run of 7-9 of bams, with nothing else than riichi and the hope for his bam 8 because it was dora. This time he got lucky, earned 6000 points... (riichi, menzen tsumo, dora)

But back to the topic! I wish I had some people who would play Fight Club with me via wireless LAN.

Your yakuman experience shows that nothing is impossible and you see the strangest things happen even if the chances for these kinds of events are lower than low. The most remarkable thing on your story is the fact that you had the chance to do the same yakuman again in the very next round of play...

As we speak of low chances. I made a kokushi two weeks ago during a live game whith haitei. Man, I could see those jaws dropping... :-)

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Re: Yakuman Club

Post by xKime » Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:13 pm

Shirluban wrote:That's a very nice and improbable win!

xKime wrote:There was a discarded :west a discarded :north a discarded :west and 2 :east discarded.
I believe it was more like: "There was a discarded :west a discarded :north a discarded :south and 2 :east discarded." :wink:
I pressed Sha twice? Lol. These buttons confuse me. I actually had to look very carefully at your reply to see the discrepancy. I'll stick to narrating, instead of clicking on tile images.
Sure afterwards it is easy to say that a play was this or that. And yes, I pushed my hand because I knew that this was a chance for "dai san gen". It could have also resulted in -12.000 points for me... But that is a risk and reward thing I guess. Ending the game with one shot or trailing the pack with 13.000 points... This time I chose risk but usually I'm more the player who likes to wait and give the hand some extra kick. There are times where a fast hand seems the way to go but I rather rely on a "hard" hand where you already got your han together. Playing stronger players on Tenhou showed me that bad waits can result in very hard hits. I guess this trend strengthens to more you climb up the dan ladder. And also playing opponents which always "go for it" benefit from bad waits. So I would have waited for another option to get at least pinfu and then play silently untill I get another dora or an opponent throws my winner...
By the way, I saw exact the same play today as yesterday, where I drew my yakuman. A guy reaching on the 6th draw, waiting to complete his run of 7-9 of bams, with nothing else than riichi and the hope for his bam 8 because it was dora. This time he got lucky, earned 6000 points... (riichi, menzen tsumo, dora)
Whatever works for you.

I'm very defensive when it comes to riichi. Even if I'm the dealer and I know I have a long way to go. Although that backfires from time to time.
I dealt into a dealer haneman (chii toi tsu + bonuses) yesterday, by discarding my pair of sha, where there was one already out. And I couldn't get back from that. Sure, I was two away from a possible Shou Suu Shii again later on (I just had to pon east (1 already discarded) and make a tanki on the west, but this time I discarded it early, so it wasn't a viable option...), but with opponents who deal into each other before I get the chance to assemble a comeback hand (I had dora ankou a few times), I just got a huge minus for that session.

Still, if you thought you had the yakuman assured, it's all good.
Last edited by xKime on Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Yakuman Club

Post by Fat*Dragon » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:30 am

but with opponents who deal into each other before I get the chance to assemble a comeback hand (I had dora ankou a few times), I just got a huge minus for that session.
Nice example. One mistake can break your neck. And it doesn't matter if you dealt into someones hand or if during your dealer turns one of your opponents tsumos a mangan+ hand. As long as the other 3 players make sure to deal into each others hand you're screwed. They play with your points and you're only buystander and wait for 4th place to come... Man, how I hate this situation.

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Re: Yakuman Club

Post by xKime » Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:06 pm

Fat*Dragon wrote:
but with opponents who deal into each other before I get the chance to assemble a comeback hand (I had dora ankou a few times), I just got a huge minus for that session.
Nice example. One mistake can break your neck. And it doesn't matter if you dealt into someones hand or if during your dealer turns one of your opponents tsumos a mangan+ hand. As long as the other 3 players make sure to deal into each others hand you're screwed. They play with your points and you're only buystander and wait for 4th place to come... Man, how I hate this situation.
Mangan? I wish. Bastards get sanbaiman on my dealer turn.
Image

I do have many replays where I'm last without dealing in and having won at least a mangan or haneman.
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The dead guy (the one who kept dealing in) just didn't have to worry as he made a tsumo suu an kou later on.

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Re: Yakuman Club

Post by Barticle » Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:46 pm

Fat*Dragon wrote:I wish I had some people who would play Fight Club with me via wireless LAN.
Ditto. We could all play together if they boosted the wi-fi range! There could be health (and battery) issues with using a transmitter with global range though I guess. :lol:

I got MFC DS off eBay a couple of months ago - for one UK pound :D - but I've not had a chance to play it yet. Does it support online play if you're outside Japan?

Still no yakuman here... :cry: Recently had another couple of near-misses: iishanten on dai san gen and tenpai on sū ankō... *sigh!*

(I think Kime must be secretly stealing all my yakumanses!) ;)

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Re: Yakuman Club

Post by xKime » Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:41 pm

Barticle wrote:
Fat*Dragon wrote:I wish I had some people who would play Fight Club with me via wireless LAN.
Ditto. We could all play together if they boosted the wi-fi range! There could be health (and battery) issues with using a transmitter with global range though I guess. :lol:
We can still go for international play.
I got MFC DS off eBay a couple of months ago - for one UK pound :D - but I've not had a chance to play it yet. Does it support online play if you're outside Japan?
Yes it does! But it goes a bit slow. I played one round and got tired and closed my DS. In my defense, I was in a restaurant, and the sushi had just arrived, and between eating and playing, eating has a little leverage.

Still, you have the 個人対戦 or 一人打ち or something like that Mode, where it's just you. ワイアレスプレイ where you play locally. And you have 全国対戦 or something like that, where you play online with a wi-fi connection with other players worldwide.
Still no yakuman here... :cry: Recently had another couple of near-misses: iishanten on dai san gen and tenpai on sū ankō... *sigh!*
Don't feel so bad. I failed a chuu ren the other day. I had 123456789 in the circles, and the rest of the hand already decided. My next draws (and also discards) were 1c, 9c, 1c, 8c. And I noticed "huh... chuuren waiting on 9c. Nice."
(I think Kime must be secretly stealing all my yakumanses!) ;)
Kime. He steals Yakumen.

Or rather, I just play a lot... and I'm not nearly as good as I should be considering the amount of hours I've been playing this game since the time I was 17 years of age, up to now that I'm 19 years old. I mean, when I was 17, I had school, and that used to take a considerable time off my mahjong time, but I used to play on the DS or the cellphone against the CPU while I was on school (during class!), and when I came back, tenhou. Now that I don't have school anymore (except for occassional Chinese and Japanese classes), I spend most of my waking time playing mahjong, watching videos about mahjong, or reading about mahjong (I think I might have read every article on this site. Especialy Garthe's, Konno's and Shin's columns, they are great). When I'm not doing that, I'm writing about mahjong, or talking about it. And even so, when I enter a streak of games where I can't get first or second, I feel really weak and think that it's all pointless. Failing a good hand because the chance of a yakuman came, makes me feel terribly n00bish. Also, failing a yakuman because of continuing with a good hand, just makes me feel bad when the yakuman actually came. If you don't have a balanced mind when you play this game, it can take away whatever is rest of your sanity...

Still, getting a yakuman is no science. Play enough, aim for it a few times, and it just comes...
It took me about a year to get my first legit yakuman (kokushi musou). Before that, I couldn't get past yakuman tenpai.

I remember I was once watching an interview to a pro player, and she said she didn't ever accomplish a yakuman. That was interesting. As you don't really need to score a yakuman to actually be good; just strong situational play and a solid theory, the hours of practice will also help to get you skilled. Taking that as an example, I promised myself to not fret it over yakuman, and ever since after that, they began coming on their own.

Every time I get fixed on yakuman or something like that, bad things happen. Just let it flow naturally... unless you're holding 100 points in oorasu and you're not dealer. Then, you'll probably need it.

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Re: Yakuman Club

Post by Barticle » Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:49 pm

xKime wrote:Yes it does! But it goes a bit slow. I played one round and got tired and closed my DS. In my defense, I was in a restaurant, and the sushi had just arrived, and between eating and playing, eating has a little leverage.
Distracted huh? Good to know it works online, thanks. I'll give it a try one weekend daytime when the time-zones are more favourable for busier lobbies. I guess if it's laggy for one overseas player it'd be super-slooooow for the three of us connecting to Japan together!
Still, you have the 個人対戦 or 一人打ち or something like that Mode, where it's just you. ワイアレスプレイ where you play locally. And you have 全国対戦 or something like that, where you play online with a wi-fi connection with other players worldwide.
Yes, it's 個人 then 一人 for individual play. We actually have a nice little illustrated guide in an old thread here: http://www.reachmahjong.com/en/forum/vi ... 18&t=50887

Looking back I see I got not one but two yakuman when I first started playing MFC PS3. I hope the DS version is equally generous. :)

I'm looking forward to trying the challenges in the Missions mode, that's one feature missing from the PS3 game.
Don't feel so bad. I failed a chuu ren the other day. I had 123456789 in the circles, and the rest of the hand already decided. My next draws (and also discards) were 1c, 9c, 1c, 8c. And I noticed "huh... chuuren waiting on 9c. Nice."
Oh what might have been! I have to stop myself picking out yakuman (especially dai san gen) in my discards.

The worst thing though would be making chuuren in circles and finding out the game only allows it in craks! :x
Kime. He steals Yakumen.
A confession! :lol:
[...]I used to play on the DS or the cellphone against the CPU while I was on school (during class!)
Another confession. At least in math class you could say it's a practical application of probability theory. ;)
Failing a good hand because the chance of a yakuman came, makes me feel terribly n00bish. Also, failing a yakuman because of continuing with a good hand, just makes me feel bad when the yakuman actually came. If you don't have a balanced mind when you play this game, it can take away whatever is rest of your sanity...
I'm unbalanced. :lol: I'll still take the thrill of chasing - and occasionally making - a precious yakuman, every time, like a noob! Probably miss a respectable win and get ronned into the bargain.

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Re: Yakuman Club

Post by xKime » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:43 pm

I guess if it's laggy for one overseas player it'd be super-slooooow for the three of us connecting to Japan together!
It's not that it's very laggy, it's just the other players are too slow too. w
imo, the 5 seconds to think is too much. Considering you also have a "let me think a little bit longer" button.
I'm looking forward to trying the challenges in the Missions mode, that's one feature missing from the PS3 game.
Missions are insane. It took me a couple of days to finish them all, but there are crazy things like "make a comeback with only 5000 points" or "win a hanchan without dealing in once" (my especialty!) or "win using 10 dora."
I think missions are great for improving skill and learning about other styles.
The worst thing though would be making chuuren in circles and finding out the game only allows it in craks!
I'd say menchin (ittsuu) is strong enough on its own. w
Always know the rules before playing.

I was playing at a nashi-nashi table the other day, and forgot there was no ato-zuke. I drew my tsumo, and had to take away my pair in late game. Needless to say, it ended in ryuukyoku.

Still, in Maajan Kakutou Kurabu DS you can configure 「萬子以外の九連宝灯 あり・なし」 so you can have it in either way. I like having it both ways, just in case it ever comes. I mean, there should be no distinction among the suits (all green and all that aside). But some people really like the triangle of "manzu has chuuren, souzu has all green, pinzu has daisharin." I guess there is a little poetry in that.
Another confession. At least in math class you could say it's a practical application of probability theory. ;)
In class I would just say "I'm talking to my girlfriend, shush." w
m unbalanced. :lol: I'll still take the thrill of chasing - and occasionally making - a precious yakuman, every time, like a noob! Probably miss a respectable win and get ronned into the bargain.
Tends to happen. D:
I like to think I try to be one of the "defense trend" 守備型 among the digital current デジタル派, so I might downgrade my tenpai if I must discard a very dangerous tile to go on. I don't like getting ronned, so I had to learn things like kabe, suji, and discard reading very carefully from the beginning. D:
I still get accidental deal-ins, especially when I reach. :D

I throw all of that aside, though, if I'm last, in oorasu, with yakuman tenpai.
I don't think I have yet taken appart a yakuman tenpai, though. I think the payout is far higher than the risk.

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Re: Yakuman Club

Post by Barticle » Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:47 pm

xKime wrote:It's not that it's very laggy, it's just the other players are too slow too. w
imo, the 5 seconds to think is too much. Considering you also have a "let me think a little bit longer" button.
Ohh, right! I hate that. I usually play pretty fast - arguably too fast since I should probably pay more attention to what's happening.

At the moment I mostly play online on Janline-R for the PS3. It has options for 3 and 5 secs but I usually set up my games with a 10-second timer to give breathing space in betaori. It's really annoying when an opponent consistently uses the full 10 seconds on every turn though. :roll: I might start using 5.

Janline has an option for 120 secs! Can you imagine?!
I think missions are great for improving skill and learning about other styles.
Yeah, will be good practising the different gods' styles.
I'd say menchin (ittsuu) is strong enough on its own. w
A lovely hand to make, but can't compare to making a yakuman, and a rare one at that.
Still, in Maajan Kakutou Kurabu DS you can configure 「萬子以外の九連宝灯 あり・なし」 so you can have it in either way. I like having it both ways, just in case it ever comes. I mean, there should be no distinction among the suits (all green and all that aside). But some people really like the triangle of "manzu has chuuren, souzu has all green, pinzu has daisharin." I guess there is a little poetry in that.
MFC PS3 has a similar option (萬子限定). I like there to be a balance between the suits so "one each" seems fair, as long as you don't look too closely at the relative probabilities, and as long as daisharin isn't disallowed! Don't like playing with four red fives either.
I like to think I try to be one of the "defense trend" 守備型 among the digital current デジタル派, so I might downgrade my tenpai if I must discard a very dangerous tile to go on. I don't like getting ronned, so I had to learn things like kabe, suji, and discard reading very carefully from the beginning. D:
I still get accidental deal-ins, especially when I reach. :D
I don't like it when opponents keep pushing and fail to dismantle their hand after I reach - it's so disrespectful! :lol:

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Re: Yakuman Club

Post by Fat*Dragon » Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:28 pm

@Barticle
At the moment I mostly play online on Janline-R for the PS3.
I'm interested in a comparison between Janline-R and MFC. Would you be so kind and write something?

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Re: Yakuman Club

Post by Barticle » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:45 pm

Always happy to help. 8)

Put simply, for online play on a PS3 get Janline-R, for offline play get MFC and for both get both!

Mahjong Fight Club has a great range of rule/play options, loads of stats and slick presentation, but requires a special subscription for online play. Supports use of USB mouse.

Janline-R is built for online play and this works worldwide* with no subscription. Presentation is quite basic and the game display is a little rough on a standard definition monitor. There are only a few rule options but that keeps it simple in the lobby view. Good online community - can have up to 20 east-only and 20 hanchan running (Japan weekend daytime hours), but significantly less in Euro weekday evenings. Stats are based only on online play and there's only one page of them. You can use a headset and/or camera (but no one does) or customise your avatar (although most options have to be bought). Can also communicate in-game with emoticons (this works really well) or with text (English option available but pretty much everyone who plays is Japanese). Also has trophies available. Supports use of USB keyboard.

My first proper MJ game for the PS3 was Mahjong Taikai IV and I enjoyed playing that offline too. Good rules and stats, although not as good as MFC. Also has a nice game display with a clean realistic table view including the full wall.

Of course you can read my guides to get more detail on the rules and options available in all three.

Two more games are available for download from the Japanese Playstation store:

Mahjong World is made by the same people as Janline-R and connects to the same lobbies for online play - most of the people I play are using it. Costs 2000 Yen. I've not played it but I assume the options are similar to the Janline, but with a reduced set of trophies.

Simple Series 500 Volume 1: The Mahjong can be bought for only 500 Yen (hence the name). Presentation and controls are very basic but the online play works outside Japan and is free. Can take a while to find players. Good range of rule options. Has a list of around fifty achievements/titles to unlock, some of which give PSN trophies. I've got this game and have played a few hours. Will be writing a little guide for it soon.

*I'm in the UK and play with someone in the US, so I assume other countries are okay too?

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Re: Yakuman Club

Post by Fat*Dragon » Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:19 pm

@Barticle

Thanks for the report! I know that you have written different guides... I own all of them! Even if I don't own most of the games they were written for! :-)
Consider me one of your big fans! I think you're really devoted to the game... There are not so many people out there who have done so many great guides WITHOUT knowing Japanese (although this might have changed by now through studying the game - a very positive side effect!).

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Re: Yakuman Club

Post by Barticle » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:33 pm

Thanks FD. :D I've discovered over the past year and a half that I really enjoy technical writing, especially about mahjong, so as long as I've got MJ games sitting on my shelf without guides then I'll keep writing them! (I've got a few DS ones in the pipeline in addition to the PSN game I mentioned)

Through mahjong I've learnt to read pretty much all the katakana and hiragana characters; the DS "game" My Japanese Coach was really helpful in this regard, although I haven't used it for months and I've already forgotten much of what I learnt! :oops: Without really trying I've also picked up several dozen kanji (in addition to the winds and numbers*) and can recognise most mahjong terms by sight, although that's not much use in everyday life! I've not really learnt any vocabulary or syntax.

I certainly wouldn't say I can read written Japanese but the key skill I've gained is how to translate it. I can only do it very slowly and I have to use a range of dictionaries (paper, online and DS) but that's all I need to make sense of Japanese games and consequently I've not felt the need to take my language study further.

*Of course all of us here have learnt, not only to read the winds and numbers, but to read them sideways and upside-down too! 8)

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