The Undisputed King of Ron2

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HotelFSR
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The Undisputed King of Ron2

Post by HotelFSR » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:27 pm

I was looking through stats on Ron2 and came across the top rated player on the site.

Holy shit...

Who IS this guy?



Rating: 2469 (!!!)
Battle Bucks Profit: 323,904B
Number of East Round Games Played: 2,656
Number of East South Round Games Played 9,625

Reach Usage: 22.17%
Open Hand Usage: 31.28%

Proportion of Hands Won: 32.27% (!!!)
Average Size of Hands Won: 5,687 Points

Proportion of Hands Thrown: 9.41% (!!!)
Average Size of Hands Thrown: 5,268 Points

Average Finishing Position: 1.94 (!!!)
Average Cash Percentage (1st Place % + 2nd Place %): 71.00% (!!!)



Holy Crap. Is this guy a machine or what? 71% (1st + 2nd) Win Percentage over 10,000 games?? Single-digit (9.41%) Winners Thrown percentage, and so many wins too?? Unreal.

2469 Rating is practically unheard of. 1.94 Average Place?? Is this even real or is there some kind of trickery going on? So far ahead of the rest.

Wow. Anyone know about this dude or exactly what\'s up?

Is he a top pro?

He should be.

Just checked and the 2nd ranked guy has 1.93 average place and 72% win.

Crazy!

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Re:The Undisputed King of Ron2

Post by Benjamin » Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:44 am

What\'s his handle?

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Re:The Undisputed King of Ron2

Post by HotelFSR » Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:20 am

His handle is:

EDIT: Japanese text doesn\'t work yet!


I edited the post above to reflect this. I\'m curious to know the deal. There\'s no personal information in his profile, but the guy ranked behing him (You-San in hiragana)lists a couple of tournaments he\'s won. Maybe that gives a lead?


To find the number one guy just look at the ranking on the Ron2 site sorted by rating. His name is two Kanjis with a space between them. Can\'t make sense of the name.

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Re:The Undisputed King of Ron2

Post by Benjamin » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:12 pm

Seems kinda weird if he\'s not a pro, or at least known. Can you fudge statistics by only playing against weak people?

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Re:The Undisputed King of Ron2

Post by Yukun » Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:36 pm

His name is \"Kou-Shi\" meaning= Walking Dead:side:

And actually this name is comming from Japanese idiom meaning=uneducated or ignorant person.

Regardless of his name, yea.. his score is unbelievable.

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Re:The Undisputed King of Ron2

Post by Benjamin » Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:28 pm

Yukun, do you mean \"unbelievable\" as in \"excellent,\" or \"unbelievable\" as in, \"I can\'t believe this. He must be cheating?\"

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Re:The Undisputed King of Ron2

Post by HotelFSR » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:29 pm

Good question.

I wonder, is it even possible to cheat on Ron2? Anyone know if high level players can beat up on weak ones to boost their record on Ron2? Or is it like Tenhou and ToupaiOu where there is a matchmaking system for players with high ratings?

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Re:The Undisputed King of Ron2

Post by Arcade » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:59 am

1.94 in a span of 10000 games is just simply impossible. Either he\'s cheating or only plays against the weakest; sadly, the skill factor isn\'t THAT large in mahjong compared to luck which flattens over time. =/

A player in tenhou once had a rating of 2415, an average of 1.98 over a 300 game span and turned out to be legit. When luck and skill comes to it\'s extreme accomplishments such as this can be achived, but the former is just not the case.

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Re:The Undisputed King of Ron2

Post by Yukun » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:18 pm

I meant his excellence, but after hearing people saying he\'s cheating, maybe he\'s doing something.

I guess it is possible to cheat in Ron2. However, it\'s not something like using hacking tools. But if you have 4accounts it\'s possible to cheat, but you know that takes a lot of money, time and continuation.

If I have time and chance to see him playing, I\'ll record one battle...

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Re:The Undisputed King of Ron2

Post by deJENNerate » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:34 pm

Ron2 has a matching system according to ranking too, so I think it\'d be hard to fudge the statistics by playing weak players. Your ranking is only affected by games that are matched by the system, so games like ours in the meet-ups don\'t count either.

Since you can only use 1 ID for each e-mail account and I\'m pretty sure they watch the home addresses, and, like Yukun said, you have to pay, and you need a different computer to log on to the system, the most likely ways to cheat would be to have friends try to join games at the same time as you and then have them lose on purpose. Then the friends\' rankings would get worse though, and the matching system would stop matching them as their rankings got further apart. The only way around that would be to play during non-peak hours.

I guess another way could be to play with a friend and just share tile information. That would skew things quite a bit when you have knowledge of 13 extra tiles.

I don\'t know if he\'s cheating or not, but that\'s definitely one of the issues with online mahjong for money. Collaborating with just one other person gives a huge edge, way more than sharing hole cardsin holdem.

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Re:The Undisputed King of Ron2

Post by HotelFSR » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:38 pm

It just occurred to me that if his rating is that high he can\'t be playing only the weakest players. Using the ELO rating system (as is the case on most of these sites) you simply can\'t get that high playing weak players as far as I know. Average or slightly above average players for the most part, maybe, but then that isn\'t cheating.

In fact, a rating over 2400 is exactly what you would expect from someone who really is that good.

You can spot those players who beat up on low grade players because they have a high win percentage but lower rating than you would expect. Conversely, you can see very highly rated players whose 1st + 2nd percentage is only around 55%. It follows that they have been playing against better players.

Also, if that guy you mentioned on Tenhou was the real deal then there\'s no reason this guy couldn\'t be for real too. Their stats sound pretty similar. Also, Kou Shi\'s average place does fluctuate just like everyone else- it\'s not always quite as high as 1.94. I\'m sure some days it might often be 1.98 just like the other guy. And as I said, if his rating is that high then he probably is legit after all.

I guess it could just be that he\'s not a famous Pro, but is an excellent player. After all, being Pro in Japan has to do with passing a test and playing extensively in leagues- but doesn\'t necessarily mean they are better than highly experienced \'amateurs\' like this guy, who may also play for money in real life.


EDIT: also, You-San (in hiragana) is another top 5 Ron2 player who often has a win rate over 70% and an average place of less than 2 (e.g. 1.95) In his profile he has listed the following competition wins within the past year alone:

2008/5 Challenge Cup: WINNER

New Year\'s Wonder Match: FOURTH PLACE (i.e. final table)

2008/11/24 Wonder Match Qualifier: WINNER

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Re:The Undisputed King of Ron2

Post by HotelFSR » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:59 pm

As of today Kou Shi broke through the 2500 rating barrier!

There is nobody in the 2400-2500 bracket behind him even.

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Re:The Undisputed King of Ron2

Post by clacker » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:23 am

HotelFSR wrote:It just occurred to me that if his rating is that high he can\'t be playing only the weakest players. Using the ELO rating system (as is the case on most of these sites)
I never saw any evidence, either written or from my experience, that said ronron used an ELO rating system. Have you noticed a difference in your score changes between high and low ranked opponents?

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Re:The Undisputed King of Ron2

Post by Benjamin » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:13 am

Does Tenhou have a system for matching good players with other good players? If I play in the ippan room I get placed against unranked opponents pretty often so I dont think so. They do have restricted areas for higher ranks, but thats something different.

And, yeah, where did ELO come from?

Clacker, that has got to be the best avatar I have ever seen. Kudos to you, man.

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Re:The Undisputed King of Ron2

Post by HotelFSR » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:43 am

You\'ll notice both on Tenhou and Ron2 that your rating goes up and down to a greater or lesser degree depending on the quality (relative rating) of your opponents.

ELO is not a matchmaking system, but a robust statistical mechanism that quantifies skill in a way that can (to a certain extent) be compared across different sports and games. It is commonly used in chess and golf, for example.

The very best chess players have ratings between 2600-2800.

The four digit rating that starts at 1500 is indicative of ELO, as is the bell curve you can view on the Ron2 stats page. The English guide for Tenhou posted on Arcturus.su explains the rating system used in mathematical detail, and describes that it works exactly like ELO.

The matchmaking system is not related to the ELO system, and yes, in the Ippan room on Tenhou you face random opponents. Nevertheless, the rating system does scale according to the quality of your opposition such that a player won\'t get into the mid 2000s by facing newbies. ToupaiOu also uses the same system, and you can find some skilled players who play a lot against less skiled players (you can just make games freely in the Ippan lobby) but their rating doesn\'t get as high as that.

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