Hi all,
I just wanted to start a chat with people more knowledgeable than I on the topic of advanced defense.
Specifically, what exactly is the significance of terms such as ura-suji and matagi-suji? I read Konno\'s article on this but I\'m still not entirely clear on the subject.
Is one more dangerous than the other? I\'d like to hear another explanation. I\'d also like to hear a little more about deducing value based on the order of the discards, which Konno touches on.
Any word on this from the Pros in the house?
Advanced Defense
Moderator: Shirluban
-
carl
- Fresh Reacher
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:13 am
- Location: charlotte, north carolina usa
Re:Advanced Defense
i dont know if youve seen this blog, but i just found it and it seems pretty useful.
http://www.osamuko.com/index.php/2009/0 ... -and-suji/
http://www.osamuko.com/index.php/2009/0 ... -and-suji/
-
HotelFSR
- Expert Reacher
- Posts: 328
- Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 am
- Location: Federated States of Micronesia
Re:Advanced Defense
awesome. that\'s a big help!
Re:Advanced Defense
That post does look like a pretty good reference on defense.
However, I think one more thing should be said about defense, if only I can figure out how to say it without sounding like too pompous an ass.
Defense is only really useful when you can assume that your opponents are playing in some sort of expected manner. Just like trying to read someone\'s betting in poker, if HE doesn\'t know what he\'s doing (and he can see his hand), how can you possibly figure it out?
In most cases you\'ll probably do OK to play defense using just regular old suji to figure out which tiles are safer than others, and will serve yourself better by just making sure you\'re putting your own hand together as directly as possible. Konno\'s defense is useful but you also have to understand that he plays at the top level of our league, against people are playing \"well\", so he can make good guesses about what they might have in their hand because of it; i.e. that guy threw away 6 and then 8 because he had 6899 and now he\'s waiting for 9 and some X; NOT, he threw 6 and then 8 because he had 688 and then drew a 7, finished a group somewhere and then threw the second 8 deciding to wait on the 6-9 as a missed win and actually you could throw ANYthing and not worry about it except that you do worry cause you\'re trying to play well and how could you know he\'s such a nimrod so you throw away your hand even though you could have won before he eventually went on to win it. Like this afternoon. God that\'s annoying.
So learn it, understand it, and use it to crush me when we\'re on the same table some day. Defensive players love me cause I tend to go pretty straight to ready leaving a telltale trail of discards and making my hands relatively easy to read. When we play together, Konno nails my wait all the time.
However, I think one more thing should be said about defense, if only I can figure out how to say it without sounding like too pompous an ass.
Defense is only really useful when you can assume that your opponents are playing in some sort of expected manner. Just like trying to read someone\'s betting in poker, if HE doesn\'t know what he\'s doing (and he can see his hand), how can you possibly figure it out?
In most cases you\'ll probably do OK to play defense using just regular old suji to figure out which tiles are safer than others, and will serve yourself better by just making sure you\'re putting your own hand together as directly as possible. Konno\'s defense is useful but you also have to understand that he plays at the top level of our league, against people are playing \"well\", so he can make good guesses about what they might have in their hand because of it; i.e. that guy threw away 6 and then 8 because he had 6899 and now he\'s waiting for 9 and some X; NOT, he threw 6 and then 8 because he had 688 and then drew a 7, finished a group somewhere and then threw the second 8 deciding to wait on the 6-9 as a missed win and actually you could throw ANYthing and not worry about it except that you do worry cause you\'re trying to play well and how could you know he\'s such a nimrod so you throw away your hand even though you could have won before he eventually went on to win it. Like this afternoon. God that\'s annoying.
So learn it, understand it, and use it to crush me when we\'re on the same table some day. Defensive players love me cause I tend to go pretty straight to ready leaving a telltale trail of discards and making my hands relatively easy to read. When we play together, Konno nails my wait all the time.