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Re:Red fives - 3 or 4 or 0?

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 4:48 pm
by HotelFSR
Not sure what you mean.

Regardless of what kind of furiten you are in, you are always still allowed to win by self draw.

I\'m pretty sure this applies across all reach mahjong rulesets, including the ones you mentioned.

Re:Red fives - 3 or 4 or 0?

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 4:57 pm
by Milkmaniac
Ah, yes. You are most likely correct and I had forgotten. :blink:

Re:Red fives - 3 or 4 or 0?

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 9:57 pm
by Senechal
Milkmaniac wrote:Is that true of the JPML/EMA rules? I think in some rules temporary furiten is just furiten (no win possible.) I seem to remember Tenhou haku-blocking me on that once.
There are three kinds of furiten: self, temporary and permanent. I\'m currently writing an FAQ on it but the global concept of furiten is if you pass up a tile for winning, you can\'t win off of it, or any of your potential waits.
WW 22234 final: if you threw the 5, you can\'t win on any of the 2, 5 and W.

Self-furiten is easy to explain: any tile you have thrown, this rule applies.

Temporary furiten applies when you pass up a tile you can win off of or even if it completes the 4 sets and a pair structure without it giving yaku (a tanyao hand and a 1 or 9 drops when you are waiting for 4 or 6 to legally finish). You are blocked from winning off another player\'s discard until you pick another tile, as long as that takes if P/K/C skips your turn. If you call say the 4 or 6 in this example before you do so, you pay chombo penalty.

Permanent furiten is like temporary furiten except for two conditions:
1- You have declared a ready hand, your riichi stick is down.
2- As soon as you miss a winning tile, you won\'t be able to win off a discard, ever.

Despite these restrictions, you can always win by self-picking your tile.

Re:Red fives - 3 or 4 or 0?

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:52 am
by Milkmaniac
Thanks very much, Senechal! My friends and I don\'t play as often as we used to, and furiten was a rare thing to begin with.

Though it was a while ago, I believe the situation in Tenhou had me in riichi...I must have passed up a ron-portunity and was confused as to why I couldn\'t ron again after my turn passed.

I\'d love to see the FAQ once it\'s done.

Re:Red fives - 3 or 4 or 0?

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:37 pm
by TobiasOlsen
Actually, Senechai, the temporary furiten is broken by chi/pon/kan, so you do not necessarily have to have drawn a new tile before you can again win off a discard

Re:Red fives - 3 or 4 or 0?

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:19 pm
by Zi Rong Low
If I was to own a Japanese set, I\'d like to play with all 4. Very tempted to paint or obtain another 2 red fives (souzu and manzu) so I can have 2 red fives from each suit! (6 total) :P

Re:Red fives - 3 or 4 or 0?

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:04 pm
by Poochy
When playing on the computer, I prefer 4, since I like the reduced homogeneity (a 5-dot wait is better than a 5-bam wait, and so on).

For playing in real life, I\'ll usually go with 0, since most Mahjong sets I see don\'t have red 5\'s, and I can\'t be bothered to look for a set with red 5\'s when I have a perfectly good one without them.