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I was wondering why this is considered bad by Sakurai Shoichi\'s style and I guess a few others?

It\'s like when you\'re reaching with something like:

2-crak 3-crak 4-crak 5-crak 6-crak 7-crak 2-dot 4-dot 6-dot 4-bam 4-bam 8-bam 8-bam 8-bam

throwing the 6 dot with reach, hoping that people will throw the 3 dot suji tile.

I can understand why it would be an okay move to throw the 2 dot and try to bring it into a two-way wait by drawing the 7-dot, but I don\'t understand why some people would take a rule specifically forbidding themselves to do the hikkake reach.

i don\'t have the answer but i\'m going to park myself here cause i am curious myself.

the way we play here is unless u are outright cheating there\'s nothing wrong with feint moves, traps, false body language, swapping a draw for the same tile in ur hand and discarding. this is a game of skill after all and if it\'s frowned upon to trick your opponent then the game becomes all about luck of the draw. draw a parallel with tennis it\'s like saying that u can\'t play with spin cause it makes the ball move funny.

i personally play hikkake reach (yay learned a new term!) often, even intentionally.

July wrote:I was wondering why this is considered bad by Sakurai Shoichi\'s style and I guess a few others?
I don\'t understand why some people would take a rule specifically forbidding themselves to do the hikkake reach.

When you say "considered bad," do you mean "not recommended" or "frowned upon as illegal"?
People can make any rule they want, as long as all players agree. But are you sure it\'s really a rule? Or merely a strategic recommendation?
To decide whether to wait for a 3 or a 5, I\'d rather wait for a 3, since more players are loath to discard a 5, especially later in the game. That isn\'t a rule, though. It\'s a strategic thought.

Well, it\'s not a rule of the game, but there\'s a style of playing in Japan (\"janki-ryu\", I think?) where they take it on themselves to make discards in 3 seconds or less, never throw an honor on the first discard, never make a hikkake reach, and some other things.

So I guess I mean not recommended.

Does \"hikkake riichi\" mean \"to riichi waiting for a closed wait\" (a middle tile in a chow)? Or does it refer to waiting for a tile closer to the middle of the suit (4 or 5 or 6)?

July wrote:Well, it\'s not a rule of the game, but there\'s a style of playing in Japan ("janki-ryu", I think?) where they take it on themselves to make discards in 3 seconds or less, never throw an honor on the first discard, never make a hikkake reach, and some other things.

I can understand the 3 second discard rule and no hikkake reach, but why never discard an honor on the first discard?

Tom Sloper wrote:Does "hikkake riichi" mean "to riichi waiting for a closed wait" (a middle tile in a chow)? Or does it refer to waiting for a tile closer to the middle of the suit (4 or 5 or 6)?

A situation where you have a ryan-kan wait and declare a reach so that your winning tile appears to be safe.

So in other words, 2-4-6, reach on the 6, and then your winning tile of 3 seems to be safe based on the 3-6-9 rule.

Monadology wrote:

July wrote:Well, it\'s not a rule of the game, but there\'s a style of playing in Japan ("janki-ryu", I think?) where they take it on themselves to make discards in 3 seconds or less, never throw an honor on the first discard, never make a hikkake reach, and some other things.

I can understand the 3 second discard rule and no hikkake reach, but why never discard an honor on the first discard?

I\'m not sure...

So \"ryan-kan\" means \"to riichi waiting for a closed wait\" (a middle tile in a chow)?

ryankan = two kanchans overlapping. (kanchan is a regular closed wait 1_3)

Like the 2-4-6 above. It\'s a useful building block but if it\'s the last thing to resolve before calling riichi, then you\'ll be forced to throw either the 2 (5 wait) or the 6 (3 wait), some people feel \"cheated out\" when the win is on the fork that the riichi tile is on. I mean the concept of a hikkake rule is IMHO a pure expression of angst (sore loser syndrome), I mean, why ban kanchan waits like that but shanpon (two-pon) waits are OK ? Or not even that ? Does this apply to the riichi tile or any discard ? The absurdity could be limitless.

In the end, it is as valuable as any table rule, which is not really. Sure, if some parlor says \"this is how we do it\", then do it there but don\'t expect a wave of reform. Mahjong rulesets have gone through so many revisions already, if it isn\'t broke, don\'t fix it.

Cool, I learned some new terms today! :cheer:

I think the \"janki\" in \"janki ryuu\" means something like \"mahjong devil\", which is fitting, since \"janki ryuu\" rules would be quite fitting for a mahjong parlor in Hell.

Huh?

Where did you get that idea? Janki is just the name of the guy who started that ruleset.

Janki is just a handle that Sakurai Shoichi is known by.

There is a janki-ryu organization of some kind that may play with whatever idolized cool ruleset, but hikkake riichi is a concept that existed before and throwing janki stuff into the mix is irrelevant to the conversation. The only thing that could probably be credited to that is the no honor discard, which has only one purpose, preventing aborted hands.

Hmmm i think this hikkake reach is quite good :) everyone likes the tricks the any game can offer, and this is just an other way to backstab your friends in a friendly game of mahjong (And everyone has to admit that they like to trick their friends for a game no ? :D)