Final score explanation

Japanese Reach Mahjong Rules. Strategy, news, sets - anything!

Moderator: Shirluban

Post Reply
woonie
Fresh Reacher
Fresh Reacher
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:16 am

Final score explanation

Post by woonie » Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:22 am

http://imgur.com/75XD4.png

Can someone explain how the final scoring/cashingout point system works? I've read through wiki and various websites but I still don't rly get it.
Last edited by Shirluban on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: More explicit title (was "scoring question").

User avatar
Shirluban
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 773
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:53 pm
Location: Svartalfheim
Contact:

Re:scoring question

Post by Shirluban » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:11 pm

In short:
1) For each player, take the final score minus 30000.
2) For the winner (in points), add 20000 points (assuming you start with 25000 points).
3) For each player, divide by 1000 and get rid of decimals (the rounding method seems to differ from site to site).
4) Rank players from 1st to 4th, according their score.
5) Apply the "uma".
With a 20/10 uma, the 1st player get +20, the 2nd +10, the 3rd -10, and the 4th -20.
Note that the uma differs form table to table. Here I use a uma 20/10, below Tom used a uma 10/5.
=> You should now have scores on two digits. If the total is not 0, adjust the score of the winner.

Ok, it didn't match with the values in your screen-shot.
I suppose the program use an uma 20/10 and a strange rounding system.
It would better be:
1st: 65 pts (64 +1 to get a zero-sum),
2nd: 4 pts
3rd: -17 pts,
4th: -52 pts.


Full explanation:
Extract from http://sloperama.com/mjfaq/yaku/yaku.htm :
At the end of the game, players are ranked First, Second, Third, and Last. Also at the end of the game, the score (until now measured in thousands of points) is converted into smaller units. Mainly this is done so that if the players are gambling, they know how much to pay one another. Japanese players customarily see the endgame score displayed in one- or two-digit numbers.

Players start the game with a bank of 25,000 points. At the end of the game, players are ideally supposed to attain a goal or target of 30,000 points. [Some programs/tables] allows you to vary the opening stake anywhere from 25,000 up to 30,000 (in 1,000 point increments) -- this example assumes your opening stake is 25,000. The goal amount is always 30,000.

1. Players' final scores are compared with the goal of 30,000 and it is determined how far off the mark they are. For example, if a player winds up with 35,000, then he's 5,000 ahead; if a player winds up with 24,000, then he's minus 6,000.

2. The player with the highest score is awarded the difference between the start points and goal for each player around the table (20,000 is added to his score).

3. Each player's score is divided by 1,000. If a score is not evenly divisible by 1,000 then the score has to be rounded first. If the "fraction of 1,000" is 500 or more, round up. If 400 or less, round down. For example, if a player had end score of 35,000 and then was awarded 20,000, his final score is +25 (20,000 winnings added to the amount of points over 30,000).

4. Now the player's final scores are compared to determine who is the Top player, who is 2nd, who is 3rd, and who is Last.

5. If a point spread ("uma" ) is used, it is calculated here. [...] let's say you choose to use a point spread of 5-10. Add ten points to the Top player's score. Add five points to the 2nd player's score. Subtract five points from the 3rd player's score. Subtract ten points from the Last player's score.

6. When players are gambling, then multiply the final score (after calculating the point spread, if you so choose) times the previously-agreed monetary unit (usually either ¥100 or ¥1,000) to arrive at the payment amount. In the following example, we assume ¥100 payment. NOTE that [most programs] do not use the bottom row of this chart (it is included in order to provide a complete understanding of how the Japanese scoring works in the real world).

Image
Last edited by Shirluban on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Correct escape sequences: \' \"
Cats don't do タンヤオ (tan-yao) but タニャーオ (ta-nya-o).
World Riichi Championship Rules
Comparison of riichi rules around the world

User avatar
Fat*Dragon
Fresh Reacher
Fresh Reacher
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 9:18 am

Re: scoring question

Post by Fat*Dragon » Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:10 pm

:-)

User avatar
Barticle
Platinum Boarder
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 1470
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:08 pm
Location: Ipswich, UK (and usually 一向聴地獄)
Contact:

Re: scoring question

Post by Barticle » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:41 pm

The most complicated example I've found is in the Nintendo DS version of Mahjong Taikai - the basic process (steps 1 and 2 below) is the same but there are several optional rules that require further point adjustments after a match.

1. The Oka bonus is paid to the winner - this is composed of the excess points remaining from the players' buy-ins after their starting scores are deducted.

In general terms this will be: (buy-in - starting score) x number of players, e.g. typically (30k - 25k) x 4 = 20,000 pts
(each player bought into the game with 30k and started the match with 25k so all four paid 5k each into the Oka).

2. Each score has the buy-in deducted, is divided by 1000 and rounded to an integer. The 1st place score is tweaked if necessary so that all scores now sum to zero.

The following stages are all optional. The zero sum will always be preserved.

3. The Uma is applied, e.g. +20, +10, -10, -20. This must be done before the other stages because the placings may change.

4. The penalty for Dobon is paid by the bankrupt player to the opponent that busted them.

5. Yakitori penalties are paid - each player who failed to win a hand pays the specified amount to each of the players that did.

6. Tip payments are paid. Chips are used to track lucky occurrences during the game like Ura Dora and Ippatsu (for Ron the discarder pays the chip/s, for Tsumo all three losers pay). Each chip is worth 5k at this stage.

7. Finally, after all other stages, the Sashiuma side-bet is settled. Of the two betting players, the one with the higher final score receives the set amount from the other. In Mahjong Taikai this is a fixed amount of 10k.

The rule options and permitted values for Mahjong Taikai DS are listed in this thread: http://www.reachmahjong.com/en/forum/vi ... =5&t=52824

There are worked examples in several of my video-game guides on GameFAQs, including the one for Mahjong Taikai DS.

Kyuu
Expert Reacher
Expert Reacher
Posts: 273
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:27 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: scoring question

Post by Kyuu » Tue May 22, 2012 6:38 am

Looks like I might want to implement the +/- Scoring for the next chance I get to run a tournament. I am going to assume the Uma is arbitary?

Also, can these same calculations be applied to N-players?

Hmm. Actually, might do the numbers per table. :oops:

===

OK. I've done my spreadsheet to handle the numbers according to the image above. Er, this one:

Image

Now. What's a fair way to handle a 2-hanchan tournament setting?

I'm toying around with the idea of:
4 tables. (A, B, C, D)

For each table - after results of 1st hanchan
Winner stays
2nd place moves clockwise among (A, B, C, D)
3rd place moves cross position (A-C, B-D)
4th place moves counterclockwise among (A, B, C, D)

2nd hanchan
Play resumes.

Objective: Determine Top 4 to place into a Finals table.

What's the best way of doing this?

User avatar
Barticle
Platinum Boarder
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 1470
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:08 pm
Location: Ipswich, UK (and usually 一向聴地獄)
Contact:

Re: scoring question

Post by Barticle » Tue May 22, 2012 12:03 pm

It's up to you to choose how much to reward (and punish!) placings with the Uma - common options would be 5-10, 10-20 and 10-30. You don't have to apply an Oka (you can either ignore the 30k buy-ins or use 30k starting scores) but, if you do, that'll give 1st another big boost (typically 20k) and a significant lead after the first match (even if the 1st/2nd scores were quite close). Even with a small 5-10 Uma and standard Oka, 1st would get +30 on top of their winning score and 4th would get -10 knocked off their losing score. :?

You can apply these to three-player games too, that's why I used the general "number of players" in the Oka statement. When using an Uma in a 3P game you could either omit the player who comes 2nd (e.g. +10/0/-10) or use an asymmetrical Uma (e.g. +15/-5/-10).

I guess major factors in tournament structure are always going to be how much time is available and how well your players will tolerate spectating / chatting / playing casual matches after they've been eliminated. In that respect it might be best to run it effectively as a league (using the +/- system) over as many matches as you can fit into the event (with player rotation as you suggested) and then have a climactic single-hanchan final for the top four. (That's basically a more general version of what you proposed.)

Post Reply