Discussion Rule Variants

[zzo38]

These are various ideas, you can discuss, modify, and add more:

Ura-dora half han
This means that you can make ura dora worth one half han instead of one han. You would do this for kan ura dora also, if you use kan ura dora. (You can round down the total number of han to a integer)

Defense yakitori
This is a rule I have heard of, and it works like normal yakitori (cooked bird) rules, but instead of your bird being cooked if you never win a hand, your bird is cooked if you discarded a tile that someone else take to win.

Simplify scoring
Some people do not want to use fu, and want to just fix the score at 30 fu always, instead. If you want to ignore fu, I think a better choice is to fix it at 25 fu instead. This way, everything is a multiple of 100 and rounding is not necessary. You can also divide all the points in the game by 100. This way, riichi costs 10 points only, you start with 250 each, a 1 han hand is worth 2 points (and then multiply to decide payment), and so on.

[Shirluban]

Ura-dora half han
Adding half han would make the scoring more complicated.
To reduce the luck with dora, the usual way is to just disallow ura-dora and/or kan-ura-dora and/or kan-dora. It\'s simpler.

Rounding down the total number of han to a integer? Did you try it?
It didn\'t sound right to me.
Since hands have generally only one (kan)-ura-dora (or zero), you need 2 identical tiles in your hand to benefit from ura-dora. Wouldn\'t it artificially reward more all pungs and seven pairs than \"standard\" hands?

Defense yakitori
It\'s an idea.
Personally I didn\'t like much yakitori in the first place.

Simplify scoring
The goal of don\'t counting the fu is to simplify the scoring.
The first step for scoring simplification is to use tables, and not re-calculate \"(<fu> x 2pow<han+2> ) x n, round up to 100\" each time. So, it doesn\'t matter if you have to round or not, since you do this only one time while building the tables.

Most (if not near-all) non-pinfu hands worth 30 fu. So fixing the base score to 30 fu makes sense. 25 fu is used excursively for seven pairs, a not-so-common hand.
About that, you can count seven pairs as \"50 fu, 1 han\" instead of \"25 fu, 2 han\".

You can also divide all the points in the game by 100.

QFTW
Anyway, it didn\'t change anything. You will just say fewer \"hundred\", and use a bit less you pen for writing these \"00\".


PS: I moved your post to the Reach Mahjong section because these variants are riichi-specific. The Other Rules section is more for non-riichi rule.

[zzo38]

Rounding down the total number of han to a integer? Did you try it?

Like, if you have 3 ura dora then you get 1.5 and you round it to 1.

Wouldn\'t it artificially reward more all pungs and seven pairs than \"standard\" hands?

I know, I did think of that. But, of course there are also end pair, and overlapping sequence.

Probably better is still removing ura-dora and kan-ura-dora (like you said). Sometimes I remove kan-ura-dora but keep ura-dora. However, I like the rule of kan-dora.

It\'s an idea.
Personally I didn\'t like much yakitori in the first place.

Yes, it is just an idea that I have read somewhere. If you want to play with yakitori at all, you might use this way instead of or in addition to normal yakitori. You can also adjust the payment amount for yakitori. I have also read elsewhere about \"yakibuta\" (cooked pig) rule, apparently some sort of revenge penalty for a player that has been hurt by yakitori rule. Other than that I don\'t know anything about it.

The first step for scoring simplification is to use tables, and not re-calculate \"(<fu> x 2pow<han+2> ) x n, round up to 100\" each time.

Even if you are using tables, I find using 25 fu and dividing everything by 100 (or, if you prefer, count 1 base fu and remove the 2 base han) still seems much simpler to me whether or not a table is used. It also makes the scoring much clearer to see.

About that, you can count seven pairs as \"50 fu, 1 han\" instead of \"25 fu, 2 han\".

The difference is if you score mangan or more, there is a possible difference.

Some other rules I have heard of:

• If the East player has the highest score, his/her tiles are always visible to all players. If the scores change due to riichi sticks, this change is immediately reflected.
• Ura dora indicators are kept visible from the start of the deal. (You can base your decision on whether or not to declare riichi, and what tiles to make with riichi, based on this.)
• One of each number tile is red, and is worth dora.
• Ippatsu does not count for self-drawn wins.
• You can rob a concealed kan to win if you are completing a Kokushi Musou hand.

[HotelFSR]

I like the visible ura-dora rule!!! Might have to try that.

Other rules I already use:

* Ippatsu doesn\'t stack with Tsumo

* Eliminate Fu - Everything is either 30 fu or 20 fu (pinfu)

[Poochy]

A couple I\'ve heard of that haven\'t been mentioned yet:

* Wareme: Whoever is sitting behind the broken tile wall wins and loses double.
* Doukasen: When someone wins a hand, whoever is sitting behind the tile wall the last tile was drawn from wins and loses double.
* Open Riichi: Upon declaration of riichi, you can optionally reveal your hand (or just the parts that are relevant to your wait). 2 han instead of the usual 1 han for riichi. Another optional house sub-rule says if you open riichi and ron off someone else who hasn\'t already declared riichi, it\'s worth a yakuman.
* Aotenjou (Skyrocketing): The exponential score formula that\'s normally used for hands worth less than mangan is used for all hands. Yakuman usually counts as 13 han, though I\'ve also heard of scoring a yakuman as 10 million (15 million for dealer).

And a couple interesting ones from Mahjong Fight Club 7.77\'s monthly events:

* Sanma Suupai: 3-player, but instead of removing 2-8 of one suit, the winds and dragons are removed. Chi is allowed.
* Kamicha Open: Each player can also see the entire hand of the player on his/her left.
* Hakuhyou (Thin Ice): Tonpuusen, each player starts with only 13,000 points, buttobi ari. Extra uma-like bonus if you bust another player; the busted player(s) have to pay the bonus.
* Haipai Open: The 13 tiles that each player get from the deal are revealed and stay revealed until discarded. (Other players cannot see their location within your hand, but can see that you\'ve retained the tile.)
* Quick Discard: The game measures the amount of time each player takes for each turn, not counting turns after riichi. Extra uma-like bonus at the end for being the player with the fastest average turn time, paid out by the slowest player.
* Senrigan (Clairvoyance): Each player can see the tile that he/she will draw on his/her next turn if nobody calls a pon/chi/kan.

And some of Touhou Unreal Mahjong\'s more interesting sets of table rules:

* red-dra counts as a red dora, just like the red 5\'s.
* One red tile of every numerical tile, and the ura-dora counts even if the winner didn\'t riichi.
* Tsumo wins are worth double.
* East\'s hand is visible to other players if he/she is in the lead. Any changes to this status take effect immediately, even in the middle of a hand.
* Only hands worth 8,000 points or more count for score. Wins less than 8,000 do not score, but do cause dealer rotations/continuances.
* Skyrocketing scoring rules, but without payments; each player simply tallies up the total value of his/her hands.
* Each player starts with 30,000 points and does not gain points from winning hands, only lose them. (Similar to the Life Points in MFC arcade.) Buttobi ari, no open tanyao, no red 5\'s, no ryanhan shibari, and riichi doesn\'t cost 1,000 points.

[zzo38]

A few of the things are I have already listed.

Also, I have seen a message asking about what happens when the dora indicators are red fives. Normally nothing special happens, but you could make it so that some of these special rules are enabled if and only if the initial dora indicator is a red five.

* Sanma Suupai: 3-player, but instead of removing 2-8 of one suit, the winds and dragons are removed. Chi is allowed.

This is very close to how I normally play 3-player games.

* Wareme: Whoever is sitting behind the broken tile wall wins and loses double.
* Doukasen: When someone wins a hand, whoever is sitting behind the tile wall the last tile was drawn from wins and loses double.

These are variants of the rule that east player win/lose double. If you use one of these, is the rule east win/lose double omitted?

* Aotenjou (Skyrocketing): The exponential score formula that\'s normally used for hands worth less than mangan is used for all hands. Yakuman usually counts as 13 han, though I\'ve also heard of scoring a yakuman as 10 million (15 million for dealer).

As a variation on this rule, you can have a rule which is like this except that nothing is rounded (so, a 24 fu and is not rounded up to 30 fu, and the total amount of payment doesn\'t depend on things like tsumo/ron, because there is no rounding).

* Senrigan (Clairvoyance): Each player can see the tile that he/she will draw on his/her next turn if nobody calls a pon/chi/kan.

So if somebody does call, does it mean it is sometimes possible for one player to know some of the tiles in another player\'s hand?

* Tsumo wins are worth double.

I have also seen where ron wins are worth double instead.

And, there are other variants with other player\'s visible tiles. One is Washizu Mahjong (if you are using two red 5pin, one of the red 5pin will be opaque, and if you are using flowers, the first flower is opaque and the other three are transparent).

Now, it means, that I should add rules for tiles visibility to some players in XUL mahjong! Haipai open should already be supported, you just have to add a function for the after dealing to turn all tiles in everyone\'s hand to transparent. For Kamichan open I would have to add an additional feature to support \"semi-transparency\" where other player\'s tiles are visible in some circumstances (you would program them in to the individual ruleset scripts). And for Senrigan I can just add custom displays (in addition to semi-transparency if that feature is also wanted).

[Barticle]

I have also read elsewhere about "yakibuta" (cooked pig) rule, apparently some sort of revenge penalty for a player that has been hurt by yakitori rule. Other than that I don\'t know anything about it.

My understanding of Yakibuta is that if a player escapes the Yakitori penalty on the final hand of a game with a ron win then the ronned player takes the penalty instead. :laugh:

Another optional rule is Shaanyuu where a third (west) round is played if no player has acheived the target score (for example 30k) at the end of the second; an extension of this is Peinyuu which gives a fourth round. I was testing this option on Mahjong Taikai IV - trying to neither make nor deal into a big win - and managed to get an epic five-round game! (with a second east round at the end before someone finally beat the target)

Most other rule options I´ve encountered in video games involve allowing/disallowing gameplay elements (various dora types, no-ten bappu, agari yame, dobon/buttobi, two-fan minimum, double ron, abortive draws, kuikae, oka, uma) or optional yaku (ippatsu, tsumo pinfu, open tanyao, nagashi mangan) or optional yakuman (renhou, paarenchan, dai sharin, double/multiple yakuman, counted yakuman). Can give more details if required.

[Shirluban]

Don\'t miss this (old) article by Jenn:

Reach vs. Riichi

[Barticle]

I have also seen variations in the options for dealer continuances - it can be on either 1) a dealer win only or 2) on a dealer win or dealer tenpai draw. Mahjong Taikai IV gives a third option called Nanba (i.e. ´south round´) which applies option 1 in the first round and 2 in the second.

Related to this is the option of Keishiki Tenpai - when this is ari a hand is recognised as being tenpai even if it lacks yaku. Obviously this has an impact on no-ten bappu (draw points) too.

These are variants of the rule that east player win/lose double. If you use one of these, is the rule east win/lose double omitted?

I´ve seen Wareme applied on top of the usual dealer bonus - so you can get ronned on a dealer mangan for 24k points! :blink:

[zzo38]

Most other rule options I´ve encountered in video games involve allowing/disallowing gameplay elements.....

I have played a few video games with mahjong, so I know about this.

[sevenup]

I think some of the scoring in the Japanese rules should be modified. Like, Ryanpeikou, 3 fans. It is very difficult yet it\'s only 3 fans.

2 Concealed pongs should be 1 fan also imo. Or Iipeikou with chiitoitsu should be counted.

For Yakuman\'s, more difficult ones should have more points. Shousuushii and Daisangen are the same points, for example. And Daisangen is way too easier than Shousuushii!!

[Shirluban]

Welcome Sevenup.

Ryanpeikou is only 3 fan, but easily combines with pinfuu, riichi, menzen tsumo and even tanyao. Furthermore, any dora will count twice.
So ryanpeikou is only 3 fan on the paper, but more likely mangan or more on the table.


I\'m not for adding more yaku.
IMHO, there is already enough yaku to have fun. If you use too many scoring combinations, you risk to \"blur\" the game strategy.

\"Or Iipeikou with chiitoitsu should be counted.\"
Did you count iipeikou without having any chii, or did you score chiitoitsu with 2 chii and 5 pairs?

It\'s true that yakuman\'s reward is not fair.
Anyway, when you hit a yakuman, no one is a threat anymore.

[Robert]

Anyway, when you hit a yakuman, no one is a threat anymore.

I remember the only yakuman I ever got in a 4-player game. It was a daisangen, on Toupai-ou. I did not finish in first place, though.

[Barticle]

For Yakuman\'s, more difficult ones should have more points. Shousuushii and Daisangen are the same points, for example. And Daisangen is way too easier than Shousuushii!!

Relatively speaking, yes! :silly:

Check the fifth post in this old thread where I posted Yakuman stats from Tenhou (with English names).

http://www.reachmahjong.com/home/index. ... 0283#50297

Shou Suu Shii occurs in approximately a quarter as many hands as Dai San Gen ...but it´s roughly 40-50 times more common than Suu Kantsu or Dai Suu Shii!

If you check my next post in that thread you´ll see I suggested splitting the limit hands into three bands, based on how frequently they occur.

Oh, and welcome to the site. :)

Bart

[sevenup]

Thanks for the welcome. I have also checked the link. Nice stats on Yakuman\'s. Very interesting.