Two quick/random questions (kanji and wait types)

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Two quick/random questions (kanji and wait types)

Post by Barticle » Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:47 pm

Hi all,

I have almost (finally!) finished writing up my guide for Mahjong Fight Club PS3 but I´m left with a couple of queries...

Firstly can anyone advise please on these kanji? They´re quite small on the screen but I think I´ve copied them correctly. I assume they´re a recognised MJ term.

Image

They appear on the records page in the stats screens in \"Renzoku ### Kaisuu\" so it´s the record for the most \"consecutive ??? count\".

The last two kanji look like the ones that appear on the score screen when you get ronned and I know the first kanji denotes negation, so is it fair to assume it´s a record for consecutive hands without getting ronned?

Also what would the correct reading be? \"Fuhoutou\"?! :unsure:

Secondly there´s another stats screen that gives a breakdown of the different types of waits in my winning hands.

Ryanmen, Tanki, Shanpon, Penchan and Kanchan are clear. Then there´s one that I read as \"Ta Men\" (Ta is the kanji formed from the katakana Ta twice, meaning ´many´) which must be multiple waits, like three-sided and higher.

But then there´s one more entry at the bottom of the list! It says \"Sonota\" which means \"etc\" or \"the others\" but what does that relate to in wait terms?

Is Ta three and the other more than three?

It´s obviously quite rare. In maybe a thousand won hands I´ve only got this one on two occasions...

Any ideas? Am happy to receive any info for both or either question. :)

Bart

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Re:Two quick/random questions (kanji and wait types)

Post by Poochy » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:41 am

I\'m not sure, but I suspect \"sonota\" (other) might be for things like Kokushimusou 13-sided wait. In several thousand hands on MFC DS, I have yet to see a single hand categorized under \"other\", but my aunt has a copy of the game and she\'s gotten it exactly once, having played way more matches than I have. (I have yet to pull off a Kokushimusou 13-sided wait, either, because I always declare the tsumo if I happen to draw the last tile on a 1-sided wait.)

Check your yaku statistics - how many times have you successfully won a Kokushimusou 13-sided wait, and how does that number compare to your \"other\" count?

Tamen should be standard 3+ sided waits. I\'ve pulled off plenty of 4+ sided waits, and none of them have ever counted as \"other\".

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Re:Two quick/random questions (kanji and wait types)

Post by Barticle » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:33 pm

Poochy wrote:I\'m not sure, but I suspect "sonota" (other) might be for things like Kokushimusou 13-sided wait. In several thousand hands on MFC DS, I have yet to see a single hand categorized under "other", but my aunt has a copy of the game and she\'s gotten it exactly once, having played way more matches than I have.
This is quite odd since I´ve got it twice and I´ve played a lot less games than you have (I found your MFC stats in an old thread here). I´ve only been playing the game for two months, actually slightly less.

Perhaps the PS3 version categorizes waits differently?
(I have yet to pull off a Kokushimusou 13-sided wait, either, because I always declare the tsumo if I happen to draw the last tile on a 1-sided wait.)
I´m yet to make any of the double Yakuman hands. Maybe if one day I made Kokushi on self-draw early in a hand I might try for it.
Check your yaku statistics - how many times have you successfully won a Kokushimusou 13-sided wait, and how does that number compare to your "other" count?
I´ve made Kokushi twice in MFC but both were on one-sided waits...

I guess Tenhou would be a special case - a sort of "non-wait" win - but I´ve never made that.
Tamen should be standard 3+ sided waits. I\'ve pulled off plenty of 4+ sided waits, and none of them have ever counted as "other".
Gotcha, thanks for the confirmation. I love getting multiple waits. B) I think the most I´ve had is probably five-sided, maybe more on a Chinitsu?

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Re:Two quick/random questions (kanji and wait types)

Post by Barticle » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:20 pm

Hey, I figured out the wait thing this morning. It´s Nagashi Mangan!

It´s obvious when you think about it - it´s a Yaku without a wait.

I was just looking through my stats and noticed that the Sonota count had gone up to three, and I´d just made Nagashi again in the previous game.

It´s weird - I tried to make Nagashi loads of times when I first started playing (probably missed a few Kokushi Musou too!) but never quite got it and gave up trying, but since I started playing MFC I keep finding myself in good situations to go for it.

I assume this stat probably includes Tenhou too, otherwise it could just be labelled as Nagashi Mangan.

In other news, I made my first ever Ryanpeikou today too! :woohoo: Now the only Yaku to elude me is San Kantsu...

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Re:Two quick/random questions (kanji and wait types)

Post by Fat Dragon » Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:17 am

Sorry for reactivating such an old thread, but this was the only post I could find concerning my problem.

I would like to know if there is a list with the names of different types of waits and some examples which show the current hand and the needed tiles. If somebody has a link or some more information on that I would be grateful for sharing.

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Re:Two quick/random questions (kanji and wait types)

Post by b4k4ni04 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:48 pm

dragon: http://www.osamuko.com/2009/04/03/big-l ... rminology/ that should help.

Barticle: fuhoutou, or whatever it is. I think it\'s \"not playing into.\" As in not having an opponent call ron on a discard of yours. So, it is counting how many consecutive hands you\'ve gone w/out dealing into your opponents.
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Re:Two quick/random questions (kanji and wait types)

Post by silent observer » Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:42 pm

It´s Nagashi Mangan!

It´s obvious when you think about it - it´s a Yaku without a wait.
nagashi mangan isn\'t a yaku, it\'s a kind of ryuukyoku.

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Re:Two quick/random questions (kanji and wait types)

Post by Fat Dragon » Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:47 pm

Thanks for the link b4k4ni04.

I did some more research and found this site. Its main topic is Riichi Mahjong as played on an arcade emulator (MAME). But it has a nice page containing the different names for different waits and is also illustrated which is a big plus (at least for me B) )


http://mahjonginmame.com/strategy.htm
(scroll down to: TENPAI HAND, WAITING FOR...)

After Ryanmentanki the author marked 3 wait types as \"name unknown\". Could anybody supply these names?

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Re:Two quick/random questions (kanji and wait types)

Post by Barticle » Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:51 pm

b4k4ni04 wrote:dragon: http://www.osamuko.com/2009/04/03/big-l ... rminology/ that should help.
I learnt the names of the waits (and lots more besides) from UmaiKeiki´s excellent list there.
Barticle: fuhoutou, or whatever it is. I think it\'s "not playing into."
Yes, thanks, I was pretty confident that was the correct meaning.

My record is 79 - that particular streak being broken by Jenn´s character!
Fat Dragon wrote:the names of different types of waits and some examples which show the current hand and the needed tiles.
I fancy a play with the tile icons so here goes! :)

Tanki - pair wait, one tile waiting for another of the same

:east :east :east :south :south :south :west :west :west :north :north :north 2-crak
wait: 2-crak

Ryanmen - the serial pair or two-sided wait, waiting to complete either end of a chow

:east :east :east :south :south :south :west :west :west :north :north 4-dot 5-dot
waits: 3-dot 6-dot

Kanchan - centre wait, waiting on the middle tile of a chow

:east :east :east :south :south :south :west :west :west :north :north 6-bam 8-bam
wait: 7-bam

Penchan - edge wait, a ryanmen including a 1 or 9 hence only waiting on one side

:east :east :east :south :south :south :west :west :west :north :north 1-dot 2-dot
wait: 3-dot

Shanpon - I call it a "double pair wait", a hand with three complete sets and two pairs, one of which must become a pung

:east :east :east :south :south :south :west :west :west 8-crak 8-crak 8-dot 8-dot
waits: 8-crak 8-dot

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Re:Two quick/random questions (kanji and wait types)

Post by Barticle » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:02 pm

silent observer wrote:nagashi mangan isn\'t a yaku, it\'s a kind of ryuukyoku.
It´s certainly not a "normal" yaku, but I wonder if it might be recognised as a special type of yaku and a special type of win?

The only Japanese resources I have are my video-games. My two full MJ games both count Nagashi Mangan among the winning yaku in the stats screens, under "houra yaku" in Mahjong Taikai IV and "agari yaku" in Mahjong Fight Club.

MFC also counts it on the stats page I described in my original post. It´s included on the table entitled "agari no machi keikou" (wait trends of wins).

Also the rule options page in the Mahjong Taikai manual describes it exactly the same way as it does Ippatsu...

"Nagashi Mangan o Mangan yaku tosuru"
"Ippatsu o 1 han yaku tosuru".
Fat Dragon wrote:I did some more research and found this site.
You pre-empted my reply by four minutes! :laugh:

Still, good to have the five basic waits illustrated here too.

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Re:Two quick/random questions (kanji and wait types)

Post by Fat Dragon » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:53 pm

Hey Barticle, thanks a lot for taking the time and illustrating the wait types here on this site. This will really help any beginners (like me!) One Karma point for you!

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Re:Two quick/random questions (kanji and wait types)

Post by Shirluban » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:13 pm

Nice examples Barticle :)
I have copied your post and stick it under the name \"Illustrated guide of waits with names\".
Cats don't do タンヤオ (tan-yao) but タニャーオ (ta-nya-o).
World Riichi Championship Rules
Comparison of riichi rules around the world

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Re:Two quick/random questions (kanji and wait types)

Post by Fat Dragon » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:59 pm

@Shirublan

Making Bart\'s guide a seperate post is definitely a good idea! Thanks!

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Re:Two quick/random questions (kanji and wait types)

Post by chalwa » Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:48 pm

It would be nice to add tho this sticed topic 3/4/5/6/7/8/9 sided waits. I dont know their japanese names, but some of them are on page which Fat dragon pasted. If someone knows all names, i can put it togeher.

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Re:Two quick/random questions (kanji and wait types)

Post by Barticle » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:39 pm

Barticle wrote:"Nagashi Mangan o Mangan yaku tosuru"
I checked my games in the Ryuu ga Gotoku series and they list Nagashi Mangan as a "Mangan yaku" too.
Fat Dragon wrote:One Karma point for you!
Ker-ching! Thanks FD. B)
Shirluban wrote:Nice examples Barticle :)
Thanks Shirl, I just knocked them up quickly over lunch!

I think they work well padded with wind tiles because it highlights the waiting tiles; also each hand has guaranteed yaku - or yakuman!
chalwa wrote:It would be nice to add tho this sticed topic 3/4/5/6/7/8/9 sided waits.
Eleanor Noss Whitney quotes 23 unique waits in her excellent book A Mahjong Handbook but none are named (apart from Nine Gates).

Don´t forget the 13-sided wait you can get on Kokushi Musou.

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