San An Kou and San Kantsu

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Ignatius
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San An Kou and San Kantsu

Post by Ignatius » Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:22 pm

New day, new question.

It is posible to mix the San An Kou with San Kantsu if the three Kans are all concealed?

I saw it once, and I´m wondering if was a wrong Han counting.
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Re:San An Kou and San Kantsu

Post by WorTeX » Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:22 pm

Uncommon situation, but it\'s valid san ankou, if the three kongs are concealed.

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Re:San An Kou and San Kantsu

Post by Ignatius » Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:14 pm

Oh, thank you very much!
I love when everything is clear.
Thank you.
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Re:San An Kou and San Kantsu

Post by azn86.jedi » Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:59 am

I do believe that if all 3 ankan are declared (ie you reveal them) the sanankou and sankantsu yaku are still valid as well.

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Re:San An Kou and San Kantsu

Post by chalwa » Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:10 am

azn86.jedi wrote:I do believe that if all 3 ankan are declared (ie you reveal them) the sanankou and sankantsu yaku are still valid as well.
I dont think so, as "an" means hidden, conceald, when you have 3 kantsu melded their name is "minkan" - melded kantsu, so they cant be "ankan" - hidden kantsu. as they are not "an", they cant be counted as sanankou yaku which requires 3 "ankou" (also these can be changed to "ankan"), but you cant say that minkan is counting as ankou.

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Re:San An Kou and San Kantsu

Post by Ignatius » Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:18 am

I´m with Chalwa, the Koutsu (A.K.A.concealed Pon) need concealed Kan (Kantsu) to be added to the San An Kou.
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Re:San An Kou and San Kantsu

Post by Shirluban » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:47 am

azn86.jedi wrote:I do believe that if all 3 ankan are declared (ie you reveal them) the sanankou and sankantsu yaku are still valid as well.
Your use of the word "declared" is confusing.

You have a concealed kan when you draw yourself the 4 tiles.
You have a melded kan when you draw 3 tiles and claim the 4th, or when you expose a pon and draw the 4th (this is a promoted kan).

In either way, the kan is declared (you said you have it) and revealed (you shown it).


If you have 3 concealed kan, you count sanankou (3 concealed pon) and sankantsu (3 kan).
If you have 3 melded kan, you count only sankantsu (3 kan).
Cats don't do タンヤオ (tan-yao) but タニャーオ (ta-nya-o).
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Re:San An Kou and San Kantsu

Post by azn86.jedi » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:10 am

i apologize for the confusion in my post. i probably meant that if you had 3 concealed koutsu and you so happen to draw the respective tiles to make all three of them concealed kans which in turn you declare and reveal (am i getting this right, Shirluban?) you are allowed both sanankou and sankantsu. I suppose one would be crazy enough to do that if they want to try for rinshan kaihou...

Ignore me if I still haven\'t gotten that right >__<

I suppose as well it\'s slightly different matter if your hand was in suuankou tanki tsumo (4 concealed pons waiting on the draw to complete the pair)

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Re:San An Kou and San Kantsu

Post by Shirluban » Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:02 pm

You are right.

When you have a yakuman you don\'t count other yaku since your score is limited to yakuman.
If the local rule allows multiple yakuman, you sum up \"only\" yakuman and not the lowers yaku.


If you have more questions, feel free to ask.
Cats don't do タンヤオ (tan-yao) but タニャーオ (ta-nya-o).
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Re:San An Kou and San Kantsu

Post by Referee » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:21 pm

azn86.jedi wrote:i probably meant that if you had 3 concealed koutsu and you so happen to draw the respective tiles to make all three of them concealed kans which in turn you declare and reveal (am i getting this right, Shirluban?) you are allowed both sanankou and sankantsu. I suppose one would be crazy enough to do that if they want to try for rinshan kaihou...
Been watching Saki lately? ;)

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Re:San An Kou and San Kantsu

Post by Referee » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:34 pm

azn86.jedi wrote:i probably meant that if you had 3 concealed koutsu and you so happen to draw the respective tiles to make all three of them concealed kans which in turn you declare and reveal (am i getting this right, Shirluban?) you are allowed both sanankou and sankantsu. I suppose one would be crazy enough to do that if they want to try for rinshan kaihou...
Been watching Saki lately? ;)

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Re:San An Kou and San Kantsu

Post by azn86.jedi » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:06 pm

Alright Ref, you caught me :woohoo:

I did watch Saki a while back, which rekindled my interest in mahjong in general. I said before somewhere else that I usually play some variant of Singaporean mahjong with friends, but Saki was what got me interested in Riichi / Japanese mahjong in the first place.

been playing this japanese flash mahjong game at gamedesign.jp as practice for both gamewise and hand score calculating... Am proud to say i got rinshan kaihou a few times. It\'s one VERY rare yaku, i have to admit.

<-- just ordered a Sango set from Dave Hurley\'s site :cheer:

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Re:San An Kou and San Kantsu

Post by Barticle » Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:34 am

azn86.jedi wrote:i got rinshan kaihou a few times. It\'s one VERY rare yaku, i have to admit.
It\'s pretty rare but far from being the rarest.

Looking up the match log stats from Tenhou I printed last year, here are the ones that occur least frequently...

0.326% Rinshan Kaihou (after a kong)
0.197% Daburu Riichi (double reach)
0.152% Shou San Gen (little three drags)
0.096% Honroutou (all terminals & honours)
0.063% San Shoku Doukou (triple pung)
0.057% Chankan (robbing the kong)
0.055% Ryanpeikou (twice pure double chow)
0.007% San Kantsu (three kongs)

That last one is more rare than half the yakuman hands!

In contrast, the top of the yaku list is Riichi which occured in 45.7% of winning hands.
just ordered a Sango set from Dave Hurley\'s site :cheer:
Cool! Enjoy. B)

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Re:San An Kou and San Kantsu

Post by azn86.jedi » Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:21 pm

ahaha good stats. it still has less than a 1% chance of happening... that\'s rare enough for me XD

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