2 small rules questions

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Johnstonjamese
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2 small rules questions

Post by Johnstonjamese » Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:59 pm

First, I know the last dealer can choose to not continue if he wins, but if it is not last round and the dealer wins, can he refuse the continuance round any time? Like say if he wins during the east 2nd round? I know it\'s unlikely, but I was just wondering if he could.

Second, can you still pon / chi / open kan on the second or third to the last tile? I know you can\'t on the last tile, but someone told me you couldn\'t on the last 4 tiles either.

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Re:2 small rules questions

Post by WorTeX » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:12 pm

The first question has troubled me also, I think the dealer status should be kept ofcourse if the dealer has won, but I see no strategic advantage of giving up the dealership, unless you can see to the future and predict that somebody is going to make a monster tsumo :D

For the second question, you can chi/pon/kan until the last tile, but placing riichi isn\'t allowed if there are less than 4 tiles left. If player picks up the 5th last tile, so there are 4 left, the player can place riichi.

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Re:2 small rules questions

Post by Ignatius » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:05 am

So if you´re the dealer and wins you can choose not to play a bonus round. What if there is a draw and you´re in Tempai?

I suppose this sort of things must be discussed before the match...

Maybe sometimes is not allowed for East to decide to play a bonus round or not do it...
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Re:2 small rules questions

Post by Johnstonjamese » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:40 am

The main example I was thinking of was I was playing yesterday and it was south 3rd round. I was all ready up massively and I kept tsumoing until it was the 3rd continuance. I was wondering since it was so close to the end of the game and I was all ready ahead nicely, could I give up my continuance in favor of a faster end to the game. At that point, the game was simply mine to lose so I wanted a fast end.

I know the ryukyoku continuace rule varies from place to place (we play if the dealer is in tenpai, he gets a continuace round).

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Re:2 small rules questions

Post by Shirluban » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:53 am

Johnstonjamese wrote:First, I know the last dealer can choose to not continue if he wins, but if it is not last round and the dealer wins, can he refuse the continuance round any time? Like say if he wins during the east 2nd round? I know it\'s unlikely, but I was just wondering if he could.
I think not.
I\'ve never seen a rule set or video game saying you can "pass" the continuance at will. So I presume you can\'t do this.
In the other hand, I haven\'t seen all rule sets nor VG, and they don\'t explicitly say you cannot pass either.

In EMA rules, you are "forced" to take the continuance, even on the last hand.
(I don\'t remember if it\'s clearly writen in the rulebook or oraly said by a referee. But I do remember it is.)
Johnstonjamese wrote:Second, can you still pon / chi / open kan on the second or third to the last tile?
It\'s as WorTeX said.
Cats don't do タンヤオ (tan-yao) but タニャーオ (ta-nya-o).
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Re:2 small rules questions

Post by Senechal » Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:28 pm

Johnstonjamese wrote:First, I know the last dealer can choose to not continue if he wins, but if it is not last round and the dealer wins, can he refuse the continuance round any time? Like say if he wins during the east 2nd round? I know it\'s unlikely, but I was just wondering if he could.

Second, can you still pon / chi / open kan on the second or third to the last tile? I know you can\'t on the last tile, but someone told me you couldn\'t on the last 4 tiles either.
1- If you\'re playing for fun and not money, you should just take the repeat and keep playing. Most wagerless organizations (at least, those outside of Japan) will have a rule stating that the final dealer has to play it all the way through.

Now, can you drop your deal? In theory, yes, you can, there are potential advantages to this, but even among skilled players, the risks are often too great. Not that manga should ever be taken as solid references, but Mukoubuchi has a clear example of this.

2- P/K/C is fine as long as it is not the last tile. You cannot declare riichi when there is no expectation for you to pick another tile (less than 4 left). If you kan with one tile left in the wall, the replacement tile you pick becomes the last tile. Rinshan and Haitei are not cumulative (you only get to count Rinshan-kaihou), but you\'re liable for Houtei upon discarding.
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Re:2 small rules questions

Post by Ruro » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:14 am

Reading this i just got an idea. When you are the dealer and the round ands in a draw, can you \"lie\" that you are in no-ten instead of tenpai for passing on the dealership? I mean if noten riichi is a possibility then so is this no?

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Re:2 small rules questions

Post by Johnstonjamese » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:10 am

Just don\'t reach. A no-ten reach that ends in a draw round means a chombo for the reacher, but if you just don\'t reach and declare no-ten at the end of the round, there is no penalty beyond paying the bonus to the tenpai people.

Most of the gambling parlors say that even if a dealer is in tenpai, they don\'t get a continuance round unless they win, so I guess you just have to think about it on a place by place basis.

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Re:2 small rules questions

Post by Poochy » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:30 am

As far as I know, the typical rules are:

1. The dealer has to take the continuance. An optional house rule can add the exception that he can decline the continuance if it is the last hand, he wins the hand, and he is in first place after the hand is scored and added to his score. (Some also play that this also applies to dealer tenpai in case of a draw). The reason for the exception is to prevent a \"Springtime for Hitler\" situation where the dealer is actually better off NOT declaring a win on the last hand because securing the oka and/or first-place uma is better than risking it to get a couple thousand more points.

2. You can chi, pon, and kan any tile but the last. However, there must be at least 4 tiles left (not counting the one you drew on your current turn) to riichi.

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