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Hi guys, I'll probably sound stupid for asking this but my friends asked and me supposedly being the riichi mahjong "expert" among them, I couldn't answer this question so here I go...

First of I've established that the yakuhai yaku does not apply to honitsu as it is already included. What I am unsure about is in cases where someone's made a honitsu hand that so happens to include their own wind tiles. Can yakuhai be applied to this case? or it cannot be?

Example hand :
whereby this player's seat wind is now south.

Asking always solves problems. I´m always asking something here.

If you have a Honitsu you can add Yakuhai. Example: Dragons or winds (Seat/Round winds only) + Honitsu. Two yakuhai are added if the wind you possesed is the round and seat wind.

A Honitsu is a hand with One suit with honors.

In fact, you can do this hand with only a set of one suit and the other sets and the pair with wind or dragons. But you can also have all sets with the same suit and only the pair made of honors. If you have one honor set, all everything, the pair too, can be done with just one suit.

Remember is a 3 Han Yaku, 2 if you expose one or more set. This is because of the Kuisagari rule. If you win with Ron and no sets exposed there´s no Kuisagari, but your winning set, when you calculate the Fu is considered as exposed, if you win with the pair you will not have problems here. Only round or seat wind and the dragon pair adds 2 fu, 4 if is the pair of seat and round wind. Maybe I´m stupid for telling you this last point, sorry...

First, mind the difference between seat wind and round wind. You can be awarded yaku for both.

I'm going to start by scoring your hand via East Round, South Seat

Closed Half Flush (honitsu): 3 han.
Red(chun): 1 han.
Seat Wind, South: 1 han.

Han Total: 5; Result: Mangan.

If the Hand was Open:
Open Half Flush: 2 han
Total: 4 han; Result: dependent on fu.
The Fu total could end up any number of ways depending on which sets were open or closed.

If it was South Round, South Seat:
Seat Wind, South: 1 han
Round Wind, South: 1 han
Han Total: 6/5 (closed/open) Result:Haneman/Mangan.
The variable being whether the hand was closed or open for the 3 or 2 han from half flush (honitsu)

The only Yaku that "counts" Other Yaku is Sho San Gen when it's scored as 4 han. It's only a 2 han Yaku as you are awarded two 1 han Yaku for the two full sets you have. Er, similarly for Hon Rou Tou, if it is scored as 4 han, as it's pre-including 2 han for Toi Toi.

Hope this helps ^_^;.

~b4k4.

b4k4ni04 wrote:The only Yaku that "counts" Other Yaku is Sho San Gen when it's scored as 4 han. It's only a 2 han Yaku as you are awarded two 1 han Yaku for the two full sets you have. Er, similarly for Hon Rou Tou, if it is scored as 4 han, as it's pre-including 2 han for Toi Toi.

or Chii Toitsu, for that matter.

azn86.jedi wrote: First of I've established that the yakuhai yaku does not apply to honitsu as it is already included.

Here is a counterexample:

East round, South seat

While we're at it, remember that Shousangen (little three dragons) counts in addition to any yaku for triplets of dragons. Meaning that the hand is worth at least 4 han.

thanks for all the replies guys... i must have gotten myself confused somewhere down the line....

Referee wrote:

b4k4ni04 wrote:[...] for Hon Rou Tou, if it is scored as 4 han, as it's pre-including 2 han for Toi Toi.

or Chii Toitsu, for that matter.

I was just reading about names for the two versions of Honrōtō; they're just compounded and abbreviated yaku names:

混老対々 Honrō-Toitoi

混老七対 Honrō-Chiitoi

It's (I think) interesting to note that you get the same two possible formats with the yakuman Tsūiisō (All Honours); the seven pairs version is quite elegant as it includes all seven different honours and I think exceptionally you can score this as a double yakuman (I would!). Conversely, of course, you can't make Chinrōtō (All Terminals) with seven pairs as there's only six different terminals.

Come to think of it, the same goes for Ryūiisō (All Green). Only six different tiles allowed again.

Trying to steer myself back on-topic... I remember Benjamin once mentioned a slang term "Bakahon" to describe Honitsu without any extra yaku. I guess that's the Baka- that means "foolish" ...it's a valid hand, but could be better.

I exclude chii-toi (7 pairs) from my explanation as I consider the ii-pei-kou; chii-toi-tsu; and ryan-pei-kou Yaku's their own category of yakus as you get progressively more pairs, (and subsequently more han) but two of the yaku count sequence and one truly counts pairs.

Also, there is no immediate higher han value assumption as there is with Sho-San-Gen and Hon-rou-tou. Both of which are 2 han yaku's on their own, but are often scored as 4 han as they imply inclusion of two 1 han yaku's or one 2 han yaku respectively (two Yaku-hai, or toi-toi-hou.)

... OH. durp. durpity durp. You mean to say that hon-rou-tou can potentially be stacked with chii-toi-tsu, instead of with toi-toi-hou, correct. For how rare that ought to occur, though, I forgot it <<;. (and I havent played in a good long while either x_x;.)
Hence Barticle's explanation. z3z;. imma just go to sleep before I make a bigger idiot of myself ^_^;...