Gut feeling and 'Nagare' versus Playing by the books

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mostek
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Gut feeling and 'Nagare' versus Playing by the books

Post by mostek » Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:54 am

Any seasonsed Mahjong player will tell you, Mahjong at its basics, is a more of a game of defense and protecting your points, than a game of seeing who can get the most points first.
Similar to Poker really, you get in when you have the best of it, and you jealously defend your stack when you dont.

But in the movie 'rounders' (a movie about poker fyi), at the end Matt Damon's character says 'you cant lose what you don't put in the middle, but then again, you can't win much either'.

So where do you draw the line on relying on statistics and percentages and depending on 'gut feeling' and 'luck' to carry you through the round?

when it comes to gambling, whether Mahjong or Poker or Blackjack or whatever, Most serious (as in, play to win, not just as a hobby to throw money away on) I know can be put into one of two categories, Luck players or Skill players.
Of course, both are important, and as in everything else, balance is key, but nonetheless, most people do tend to lean one way or another.

What kind of player do you see yourself as and why? What goes through your head when you are in a game deciding situation?
御無礼、終了ですね
Goburei, Shuuryou desu ne

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Re: Gut feeling and 'Nagare' versus Playing by the books

Post by Ignatius » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:01 pm

As I´m a newbie and a bad player. I say that for me, my way is to rely mostly on luck and "nagare" (flow). I´m learning a bit of the basics skills though...
Life is as beautiful as you want it to be, but it´s only one. That´s why you must not get tired of it. Don´t care if you don´t say something that seems "important" because your mere existence is important for someone.

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Re: Gut feeling and 'Nagare' versus Playing by the books

Post by cavemaneca » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:10 pm

I play poker a bit with friends, and I've had plenty of times where I just go for a hand, bluff it out, and win big. Sometimes I even get lucky enough to flop the card that wins my hand.

As for mahjong, I'm still no good at reading discards or anything, but if I want to go for a specific hand, I just do it, and I don't mind much what anyone else is playing unless they riichi.

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Re: Gut feeling and 'Nagare' versus Playing by the books

Post by Barticle » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:02 pm

I have a background in science and maths so I guess I'm very much of the Digital school of thought, thinking in terms of probabilities. Would be more likely to take a gamble or "try my luck" if I was down on points and it was late in the game, or perhaps if I had a big comfortable lead and was bored of defending!

BTW my mind tends to wander when I go cycling. Most recently it came up with this little song, sung to the tune of the Dean Martin classic, That's Amore.

When your hand goes Tenpai,
and you don't even try,
that's Nagare!

Erm, that's all I have so far. :lol: I'm open to contributions.
mostek wrote:御無礼、終了ですね
Goburei, Shuuryou desu ne
Mukoubuchi fan? :) I'm just playing the DS game at the moment.

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Re: Gut feeling and 'Nagare' versus Playing by the books

Post by Archon_Wing » Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:13 am

Eh, I wouldn't take Rounders seriously. :p The Hollywood version of things is well... oversimplifying things.

I would go with digital (book). Too many times people will say "I felt it" when asked about a certain moved that work, and that's often just a excuse than a reason. People are generally terrible at realizing statistics and probability and we too easily form generalizations. People always tell you about the one time [x happened] but not the 999 times it didn't

But on the other hand, you may take advantage of this from other people; and "Nagare" really can exist. Not in the form of drawing better tiles, but when you start winning a lot, it can have an effect on opponents. They may be scared into playing more defensively if you say, win a few big hands, and that allows you to get away with more. If you nail them with an unusual wait, repeatedly, you can frustrate them and leading them into where you want.

In other words, it lets you take advantage of this "luck" more.

But these things mean little for beginners. The same is true of poker; everyone wants to do cute little bluffs and level the crap out of their opponents, but at the lower stakes with worse players, it's not necessary. It's a common saying to never bluff an idiot, because they're not gonna get it anyways. But at higher levels when everyone gets better and you can't just overpower with raw skills, taking advantage of random occurances (luck based stuff) may grant you an edge.

In other words manage your skill first, then manage your luck. Once you get good enough, you'll understand what luck and gut feeling really is.

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Re: Gut feeling and 'Nagare' versus Playing by the books

Post by audacity » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:26 am

Topic has been shoved around way too much, and it's easy for clueless people to overstate the differences between actually viable playing styles.

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