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Hi everybody,

I was wondering what the chips are used for found in Japanese mahjong sets like these:
http://image.www.rakuten.co.jp/goldstar ... 20713.jpeg

Hello and welcome.

If you're playing for money you can optionally use the chips to keep track of lucky occurences - like when you get ura dora (and kan ura dora) or ippatsu - each chip being worth a cash bonus at the end of the game.

When we discussed chips previously, Wortex reported that he liked to use them for the honba count (the number of consecutive preceding draws and dealer wins, each worth an extra 300 points for a win). Usually the dealer would use his/her 100-point scoring sticks as counters but that's awkward, especially when the seat winds rotate.

Bart

Why do most sets contain 2 red 5p and 1 of the others?
Do you use all 4 akadora?

I think it's just because the tiles are packed in rows of four. If you only had three red fives you'd need to find something else to put in the fourth space in that row. Some older sets used to contain four or eight spare blank tiles (which of course are identical to the Japanese white "dragon") but that seems to be a lot less common now.

You can play with only two red 5p if you want, or one in each suit, or all four. I don't like the asymmetry so I'd go with one in each.

More rarely you'll see some Japanese sets with eight red fives (two 5s, two 5m and four 5p there!) and some video-games give you even more flexibility - I have one that permits a maximum of twelve red tiles, and you can use red fives, threes or sevens!

Why do the pinzu have more red fives?
What is the origin of the red fives, threes and sevens?

I don't know the origin nor reason for pinzu over other suits, but a have a hint.
At Chinese Classical (at least with the variant I've learned), you get 100 points for going out on a (not red) , and at CC it's a very very big bonus. There was no bonus for going out with a or .

Ok, that only moves the problem...

As I mentioned, some people like to play with only two red 5p. I think that's more common in the Kansai region? Someone once posted on the forum that they'd bought a Nintendo tile-set and it only had two red tiles, both 5p.

Here's an example: http://aucfan.com/aucview/yahoo/t197089289/

As to why they chose the pinzu suit, I don't know. Maybe because people were familiar with gambling with dice (from Chinchirorin etc) and the dots look like dice markings? Perhaps because the colour of the markings is more important on the other two suits? Maybe because the dots represent coins and therefore winning money?

I see the red tiles as part of the modern Japanese rules so I'd assume they were introduced after WWII and spread in the 60's or 70's? You need a historian/researcher. Where's Benjamin when you need him?!

Shirluban wrote:Chinese Classical

Ah, good point! In the CC rules there's a limit-hand known in English as "Gathering the Plum Blossom from the Roof" which is awarded for declaring a win on a 5p specifically when drawn as a supplement tile after a kong (i.e. it's a special case of the Japanese yaku Rinshan Kaihō). The 5p is supposed to look like plum blossom.

I have seen this hand as a rule option in a very old Japanese video-game where it was called 五筒開花 (Ūpin Kaihō).

This link to the original Chinese rules, combined with the Japanese love of flowers, might be the answer.

Barticle wrote:I think it's just because the tiles are packed in rows of four.

Yes. That's the main reason.

Barticle wrote:

Shirluban wrote:Chinese Classical

Ah, good point! In the CC rules there's a limit-hand known in English as "Gathering the Plum Blossom from the Roof" which is awarded for declaring a win on a 5p specifically when drawn as a supplement tile after a kong (i.e. it's a special case of the Japanese yaku Rinshan Kaihō). The 5p is supposed to look like plum blossom.

I have seen this hand as a rule option in a very old Japanese video-game where it was called 五筒開花 (Ūpin Kaihō).

This link to the original Chinese rules, combined with the Japanese love of flowers, might be the answer.

I've never gotten the 五筒開花、but I have actually gotten the 一筒海底！

What game was it that allows you to use red 3s? I would love to try that. Reminds me of the San Queen Cup.

xKime wrote:I've never gotten the 五筒開花、but I have actually gotten the 一筒海底！

That's pretty cool. Maybe you should switch to CC, you seem to be good at it.

In Japanese rules a 1p is wasted if you're not using it for Rising Sun!

What game was it that allows you to use red 3s? I would love to try that. Reminds me of the San Queen Cup.

It's the Mukoubuchi manga game on the DS. You can specify 1-4 Akadora in each suit individually, and they can all be either 3, 5 or 7.

It has a few other exotic options like optional 1500 or 3000-point Honba bonus, Arisu and Binta. Also has online play, super-powers mode, story mode, gambling, dictionary, WWYD and scoring quizzes. Definitely one of the best games available. More info in my guide.

Barticle wrote:

xKime wrote:I've never gotten the 五筒開花、but I have actually gotten the 一筒海底！

That's pretty cool. Maybe you should switch to CC, you seem to be good at it.

In Japanese rules a 1p is wasted if you're not using it for Rising Sun!

What game was it that allows you to use red 3s? I would love to try that. Reminds me of the San Queen Cup.

It's the Mukoubuchi manga game on the DS. You can specify 1-4 Akadora in each suit individually, and they can all be either 3, 5 or 7.

It has a few other exotic options like optional 1500 or 3000-point Honba bonus, Arisu and Binta. Also has online play, super-powers mode, story mode, gambling, dictionary, WWYD and scoring quizzes. Definitely one of the best games available. More info in my guide.

Ah, thank you! I have played it indeed. Just one mission of the story mode, but still. I might buy/download it whenever I can. orz

It's very hard to find sets with red 3s. Let alone for an automatic table. And I don't like to "just pretend the 3s are red." D:

Yeah, I like to go with one of each because I don't like the asymetry either, but since here it's hard to find Japanese sets other than online, I usually play without red fives.

However, even without liking the asymetry, you can't get rid of Ryuu Issou.

xKime wrote:What game was it that allows you to use red 3s? I would love to try that. Reminds me of the San Queen Cup.

Update! I've just got Simple DS Series Vol. 1 - The Mahjong and it has the same flexibility as the Mukoubuchi game: red threes, fives or sevens and up to twelve in total.

Counted yakuman here I come...!

(The game is otherwise unremarkable though, aside from having two, three and four-player modes.)

Barticle wrote:Counted yakuman here I come...!

Oh well, it was a nice idea but this 15-Han monster was capped at Sanbaiman...
The game does list Kazoe Yakuman as a valid limit hand, but maybe it's disallowed in 3P or if you're greedy with the red dora options?