Open and concealed

[Jiazzz]

I see people who are in a suuankou non-tanki wait going for a tsumo, because if they ron it's a sanankou?
With other hands, like with an iipeikou/sanankou, they can ron on the remaining tile necessary for the iipeikou/sanankou. Their description states that the yaku tiles have to be concealed.
What's the difference in open vs. concealed in these cases?

[Shirluban]

Some yaku need to have a closed hand, while some others need only to have closed sets.

Remember that a hand is concealed if the 13 tenpai's tiles are self-drawn. It does not matter if the winning tile (agari-pai) is self-drawn or claimed.
So if you have a closed hand winning by ron, the last set is open, but the hand is still closed.

For iipeikou you need a closed hand, not absolutely closed sets.

ron
is a valid iipeikou hand: the last 234sou is open, but the hand is closed.

For sanankou (and suuankou), you need closed sets.

open
Winning by tsumo is ok: the three koustu are concealed.
Winning by ron is not: the last koustu is open, you have only two concealed koutsu.

[Referee]

Note that if you are waiting on shanpoten (two pair) and you claim ron it's still a closed hand, but the set is open, and it scores fu (aka minipoints) as an open set



Ron

Iipeikou counts (closed hand), and yakuhai haku (aka white) => 2 han. Fu = 20 + 8 for white + 2 for 5-man = 30 fu, 2 han (not 32, making 40)
If not the dealer 2000 points (plus repetitions, and riichi sticks), not 2600.

[Shirluban]

Concealed hand on a discard is 30 fu.

Iipeikou counts (closed hand), and yakuhai haku (aka white) => 2 han. Fu = 30 + 8 for white + 2 for 5-man = 40 fu, 2 han (not 42, making 50)
If not the dealer 2600 points (plus repetitions, and riichi sticks), not 3200.

[Jiazzz]

Ah, forgot I could use the tile emoticons.
I got some of my info of http://arcturus.su/tenhou/scorequiz/yaku.html

Got the following hand:
Concealed
Open Ron
The yaku indicated are: haku, hatsu, pei, toitoi, sanankou, shousangen, honitsu

Also with:
Open: Ron:
Also register as a sanankou. I also thought I found a vid on Youtube supporting this, but I can't seem to find it.

But hands like:
Ron:
Register as sanankou, not suuankou. Is the app wrong about the sanankou ron?

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Hands like:
Open: Ron:
indeed not register as iipeikou as a part of the hand is open.

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What about yaku with +1 if concealed/-1 if open (depends on how you look at it), does this mean the entire hand has to be concealed or just the tiles for the yaku?
eg
Open: Ron:
Do you get still get itsuu?

or:
Open: Tsumo:
Do you get sanshoku?

[Shirluban]

I got some of my info of http://arcturus.su/tenhou/scorequiz/yaku.html

That explains this, Tenhou scoring quiz has a bug.

1st ankou hand: NOT sanankou, only two ankou.
2nd ankou hand: NOT sanankou, only two ankou.
3rd ankou hand: sanankou, not suuankou.

"iipeikou hand": indeed, NOT iipeikou, the hand is open.

What about yaku with +1 if concealed/-1 if open (depends on how you look at it), does this mean the entire hand has to be concealed or just the tiles for the yaku?

It means you will count the yaku whenever the hand and/or sets are open or concealed.
If the hand is concealed, you get the higher value, if the hand is open, you get the lower value, whatever sets are open/closed.


open: , ron:
is a valid ittsu for 1 han.

ittsu hand: you have ittsu, 1 han.
sanshoku hand: you have sanshoku, 1 han.

[Jiazzz]

Thank you, that clears it up.

[Referee]

Yes, Shirluban. I forgot about the 30 for menzen ron, my bad. The point I tried to make is still valid, fortunately.

Tenhou's yaku quiz has a bug counting those hands as sanankou, but as Shirluban said, those first two hands don't have it.

EDIT: And by linking my old thread I found that I still have problems with the fu!

[Gamegrunt]

Geez, I wish my Japanese were better!

Gg

[Jiazzz]

Geez, I wish my Japanese were better!

Gg

Huh?

[Barticle]

Clearly my terminology guide has not been your preferred bedtime reading recently, Gg!

I recommend two pages per day to improve your MJ vocabulary. It's a guaranteed insomnia cure too!