Rinshan + Haitei

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Kyuu
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Rinshan + Haitei

Post by Kyuu » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:49 am

Is the combination of Rinshan + Haitei possible?

Impossible, as I managed to read somewhere (can't remember where at the top of my head). For a long time, I presumed the occurrence as impossible. Then, I have another player claiming to have performed the feat.

If allowed, this would entail a player creating a kan with one tile left in the wall, by which a kan call forces the last normal tile in the wall to be shifted in the dead wall. And of course, the kan draw results in rinshan tsumo.

If possible, anyone have examples?

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Re: Rinshan + Haitei

Post by Shirluban » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:36 pm

Of course it is possible.
There is no problem to declare a kan when there are 1+14 tiles in the wall: the replacement tile will be the last tile and we still have a 14 tiles long dead wall.

What is impossible is to declare a kan with the last tile (with 0+14 tiles in the wall), since there is no tile available for the replacement.
Cats don't do タンヤオ (tan-yao) but タニャーオ (ta-nya-o).
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Re: Rinshan + Haitei

Post by WaveMaster » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:45 pm

To clarify, drawing the last tile from the dead wall instead of the live wall as you describe does not score Haitei, so it is impossible to combine those two yaku.

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Re: Rinshan + Haitei

Post by Referee » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:27 pm

Wavemaster is correct. Haitei is tsumo with the last tile of the live wall, and Rinshan is tsumo with a tile from the dead wall.

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Re: Rinshan + Haitei

Post by xKime » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:40 am

When people write rulesets they should list Haitei Raoyue as "self-draw win with the last tile from the live wall" and Rinshan Kaihou as "Self-draw win with the quad replacement tile from the dead wall." (or Rinshanhai, or whatever other whacky English terms they wish to use, but with the same idea)

We would reduce the amount of questions like this one from once a year to once every two or three years.

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Re: Rinshan + Haitei

Post by Senechal » Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:06 pm

xKime wrote:When people write rulesets they should list Haitei Raoyue as "self-draw win with the last tile from the live wall" and Rinshan Kaihou as "Self-draw win with the quad replacement tile from the dead wall." (or Rinshanhai, or whatever other whacky English terms they wish to use, but with the same idea)

We would reduce the amount of questions like this one from once a year to once every two or three years.
This. There can always be a houtei (final discard), but haitei (final draw) is cancelled by the replacement tile.
Now I'm sure someone out there is going to say "they play that way, don't judge them", but we will anyways. If you don't learn standard rules, why should we care if you claim it's a variant?

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Re: Rinshan + Haitei

Post by Kyuu » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:05 am

Thus, in conclusion, Rinshan and Haitei are impossible to be combined. Same goes for Houtei. 8) Which leaves the possibility via variable rulesets.

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