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abortive games/ draws

Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:20 pm
by xDsoul
What do you guys think, do you find it helpful, hindering, or neutral just dont care. Bringing it up outta curiousity because in a couple of previous games by taking advantage of this. First game I was in a danger zone 3 players in tenpai all three of which reached, I was running out of options znd didnt know which tile to discard but somehow I managed to safely get into tenpai n reached forcing a draw occuring when 4 people reach. Right after that game I was stuck in the same situation 3 players reached except this time I was quite a few tiles away from tenpai so I played on a hunch notice a pair of 5 sou tiled I was holding and none were discarded yet. It was a live tile and atleast two of the other players were discarding around that tile hinting in their pond that that was atleast one of the tiles they were waiting on. But the third players discard were hard to read but I saw he didnt discard ny 5sou either so I played on my hunch and discarded it. Resulting in a force draw of three playerd going out on the same tile. Lol so let me no what you think im curious to hear from you all.

Re: abortive games/ draws

Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:21 pm
by Ozball
I think they have their place, but some of them seem a little odd to me. The draw when three people ron on the same tile for one. If you're going to allow double rons then why is triple so different? The main one I think is good is the 9 terminals 9 honours (or whatever it's called in English) where your starting hand is crap and you can call a draw. Although it's worth remembering that most Mahjong parlours in Japan don't have abortive draws, or at least the more common ones like everyone discarding the same wind on the first turn, and the 9 terminals and honours. So if you're playing free in parlours then it's best not to rely on them.

Nice work forcing the triple ron draw though! I really wish I could read discards better than I can.

Re: abortive games/ draws

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:57 am
by xDsoul
I agree with what your saying some of the aborts are rather weird but im pretty sure theres a readon behind each one. And that 3 player ron was pure luck. I can read some discards but I played on a huuuge hunch no clue wat was going to happen. But with alot of the games I play with superstition luck and the flow of tiles. So I was taking a risk and ig it payed off ^^

Re: abortive games/ draws

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:30 pm
by Kyuu ... &tw=1&ts=8

Looking at this. In hindsight, my calling of riichi to force suucha riichi (4-riichi) was a mistake. However, I gave in to the pressure of being the lone person facing 3-riichi simultaneously. Although, if I had not done that, I would not have enjoyed the next hand (despite not winning it). I can remember my laugh that day. :lol: ... b0b9e&tw=2

On the other hand, there's sanchahou (triple ron). Again, the shock of getting called ron was scary and sad. However, seeing all three at once, that made me feel better, because I didn't have to worry anymore.

If there's one thing I can appreciate this aspect of the game, they can be lifesavers -- against precarious situations. In the 4-riichi example, I also had the mindset of looking to win those riichi points in the next hand. But alas, who'd expect the result of that?

Re: abortive games/ draws

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:25 pm
by zzo38
I have never had the situation with 4 players riichi, although I do like this rule. (I also don't know exactly what happens if the fourth one is no-ten riichi; someone partially explained but isn't entirely clear)

I have had the all four same wind discarded on first turn a few times, and it is ALWAYS NORTH. My brother says it is the same for him. (I have sometimes done this deliberately, although this doesn't happen very often since you do not have full control over it)

I don't like triple ron rule very much though, since someone might decide to don't call ron in a small amount of time if two other players do, if they want to force the discarder to pay in order to affect who has first place and that stuff.

Re: abortive games/ draws

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:25 pm
by Referee
I don't like any of them. The problem I see with them is that they create inconsistencies and easy outs sometimes.

- Nine terminals draw: Worst offender. You can go for your kokushi musou or play defense. You're not going to enjoy your hand? Well, it happens. It's only a hand, and if you want to fold it, it can be pretty safe.

- Four like winds discarded: This one is superstition, on the Japanese similarity in the words "four" and "death". You kill some hands, you say. Yeah, but likewise when people discard, say, the same Dragon, and no one calls that a draw. See below.

- Four kan by different people: A necessity only because there are no more rinshan tiles to draw, although they should be doing it on the fifth kan whatever. The rule could be ammended in these cases, but that is insatisfactory. The only one that I feel that "wrecks" the hand so that it has to be aborted, but I'd do it on the fifth kan always.

- Triple ron draw: As it has been said, why the easy out if double ron is OK? If you manage to discard a tile that feeds all three of your opponents, you deserve the punishment, right? Some case may be raised for those who are in riichi, but still, you should pay. And if your game has the atamahane (another rule I dislike), triple ron can also be handled by that, can't it?

- Four people riichi: This is one that has some merit, as the hand has just become a russian roulette lottery draw. But everyone knows that when they declare their Riichi they're running that risk. So I see no need for this one, either.

WWYD, Evil version: East 1-0. Seat: North.

Hand: 2-bam 2-bam 2-bam 4-bam 4-bam 6-bam 6-bam 6-bam 8-bam 8-bam green-dra green-dra green-dra :north


East: :north
South: :north
West: :north

Re: abortive games/ draws

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:01 pm
by xDsoul
I agree completely with the advantages and disadvantages I still find it more usefull to get out of a sticky situation instead of having to bare through it with ur neck out.

For the evil wwyd discard a green-dra u can still complete it with 2-bam 4-bam 6-bam 8-bam and the one most people forget are the 3-bam. In addition u can pon the green-dra later on if the 4th comes out. So what if ur furiten u have the option to change ur wait and correct me if im wrong but I believe ryuuiisou can be completed with open melds y try to call riichi and keep it conceald. Just deal the north later on cuz now u no its safe.

3 people ron abortive draw is an optional play just like nagashi mangan.

Furthermore if all 4 players riichi everyonr must reveal to comfirm the riichi. If one is noten itd be a chombo penalty and the gamr becomes aborted anyways. Same dealer no repeat I think anyways. :3