another gameplay question

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Krabman
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Re: another gameplay question

Post by Krabman » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:24 pm

Did you get that Ron from Shimocha?

I realize it's all a matter of aiming for gyakuten or securing your 3rd place.

It was a possible high-scoring hand.

However, Ron on any opponent with those discard piles was pretty much impossible. It was very likely that 6p were distributed between all 3 opponents. Of course, there's always a chance for Tsumo. Your 1p,2p, 5p were fairly safe to fold with. It seems like everyone was going for Yakuhai/Honitsu Dora X :D

I think such decisions should also depend on general game circumstances. In tournaments you would probably take more risks. In long running competitions such as leagues or rank grinding, you should play carefully and avoid 4th place at all costs.

Gyakuten always makes us happy but most of the time it's better to just fold and let the other players kill each other.

I'm just a beginner so I can't give a definite answer to your question. I think I would've done the same in the actual game.

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Re: another gameplay question

Post by or2az » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:12 am

Okay, here is a message I have not seen before.
I recently enabled the ryan han shibari rule option, and since the honba count on the table is 5, I'm sure this is what it refers to.
Can someone give me the exact translation?
Next question;
North discarded the 7-bam and I couldn't call it for the win. There are 7 tiles left.
1) Is there a way to win this hand or do I just play it out for the draw (tenpai).
2) Also, do I chi the 7, pon the 7, or let it pass, or does it not matter? (if I can't win the hand)

(got myself in a mess here by not paying attention to the honba count. I could have tried for the flush, but then this post wouldn't be necessary, and I wouldn't learn anything.)
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Re: another gameplay question

Post by Iapetus » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:28 am

You let it pass, draw, and discard your own 7s, which is both perfectly safe and lets you remain tenpai.

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Re: another gameplay question

Post by Referee » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:21 pm

You could win on a Saki (Rinshan Kaihou), since the stars are not aligned for a Koromo (Haitei Raoyue)

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Re: another gameplay question

Post by or2az » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:03 am

Understood. Both of you. However, by passing up the 7, wouldn't that put me into furiten for passing up a tile that would complete my hand. (even though I could not win with that tile)
I seem to remember a similar situation and the reply by shirluban which follows. Does that apply in this situation also?
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=51553&start=15#p57101

Re: Furiten question

Post by Shirluban » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:32 pm

"I thought that TEMPORARY furiten was when you passed up an opportunity to take a RON WIN."


Furiten (temporary or not) is for missing an opportunity to complete the hand. Not necessary to win.
Even letting pass a non-winnable hand will get you furiten.

So you're right: Letting pass the 1-dot made you temporary furiten, despite you could not call it.

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Re: another gameplay question

Post by Iapetus » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:22 am

Yes, passing on the 7 puts you into temporary furiten. It immediately ends when you draw the next tile.

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Re: another gameplay question

Post by or2az » Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:00 am

It is east 3 of an East/South match and you are the dealer.The score is close and there are 30 tiles left.
You are waiting for a 6-crak or a 9-crak for the win.
South has just discarded a 9-dot. He looks dangerous.

A) Do you pass on the 9-dot and continue waiting. There are 6 out of 8 winners still available.

B) Do you claim the 9-dot for toi-toi, discard either the 7-crak or 8-crak, and have a single wait of 3 tiles for the other.

C) Do you do the above but get rid of both cracks and try to get a pair of 6-dot for an additional half flush. There are still 4 out there and, from the discards, I believe this is the only dot that you can legally make a pair out of.

What's your opinion?
I chose B. Any preference on which crack to discard?
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Re: another gameplay question

Post by zzo38 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:33 pm

or2az wrote:B) Do you claim the 9-dot for toi-toi, discard either the 7-crak or 8-crak, and have a single wait of 3 tiles for the other.
I don't know what is best but one idea is, make toi-toi and then trick opponent into believing you can make a half flush too even though you can't. Unfortunately, I do not know if 7m or 8m is better to discard, because I am not good enough at it.

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Re: another gameplay question

Post by Iapetus » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:31 pm

Ponning for toitoi halves the wait but quadruples the score, so it should be done. 8m is marginally more likely to be discarded, so wait on it.

If you draw a pin/honor that is a good wait, switch to honitsu. The increase may be just 4000, but the enemy can see you have 7700 even without honitsu, so they have no reason to be super afraid of pin/honors and careless about manzu/souzu.

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Re: another gameplay question

Post by Ignatius » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:46 pm

Iapetus wrote:Ponning for toitoi halves the wait but quadruples the score, so it should be done. 8m is marginally more likely to be discarded, so wait on it.

If you draw a pin/honor that is a good wait, switch to honitsu. The increase may be just 4000, but the enemy can see you have 7700 even without honitsu, so they have no reason to be super afraid of pin/honors and careless about manzu/souzu.
As I´m not talented with mindgames, even if I like Riiichi Mahjong I tend to loose a lot and improve very slowly, would you mind explaining me why is 8m more likely to be discarded?

I should ask about this things more but I´ve always felt a little embarrased when thinking about it...
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Re: another gameplay question

Post by or2az » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:17 pm

Don't hesitate to ask. If you didn't, I would have. I can see that the 8-crak would more likely be discarded only because the 7 is more useful in that it can be used in 3 different chows (567, 678, and 789), while the 8 can only be used in 2 of them.
So, if I decide to wait on the 8, that means I have to discard the 7, which is exactly what my opponents want, since it is a more useful tile.
How's that for twisted logic, which is why I asked the question to begin with.
(my first instinct was to toss the 8 and wait for the 7 just in case they were thinking I would do the opposite)
Oh what a tangled web we weave.....................

By the way, Ignatius, did you see my request for an exact translation of the ryan han shibari message 9 posts above?

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Re: another gameplay question

Post by Ignatius » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:34 am

or2az wrote:Don't hesitate to ask. If you didn't, I would have. I can see that the 8-crak would more likely be discarded only because the 7 is more useful in that it can be used in 3 different chows (567, 678, and 789), while the 8 can only be used in 2 of them.
So, if I decide to wait on the 8, that means I have to discard the 7, which is exactly what my opponents want, since it is a more useful tile.
How's that for twisted logic, which is why I asked the question to begin with.
(my first instinct was to toss the 8 and wait for the 7 just in case they were thinking I would do the opposite)
Oh what a tangled web we weave.....................

By the way, Ignatius, did you see my request for an exact translation of the ryan han shibari message 9 posts above?
Oh I didn´t see it. It says: Ryanhanshibari: (With) five Honba and thereafter, because of the Ryanhanshibari rule, you cannot win with (only) 1 Han/Fan.

This is too literal, but it´s the best way I found, in this case, to give an exact translation. The words inside () are nonexistent in the japanese text.

And thanks for the explanation on the 8 M and 7 M tiles.
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Re: another gameplay question

Post by or2az » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:10 am

It is south 1 of a east/south match.
North has just discarded a 4-crak.

With 47 tiles still remaining in the hand,
should one ever consider claiming that 4 and going for the open flush, or just pass on it and continue with the concealed hand?
Does the decision depend on other factors, like the score, the round, dora in hand, the discard pool, the iipeiko, or if you are the dealer?
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Re: another gameplay question

Post by Iapetus » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:01 am

Absolutely stay closed here. Pon of 4m turns the hand from an okay shape iishanten to a bad shape sanshanten, and doesn't increase the value much.

I don't think there's any case where you'd pon 4m with this. Even if you need haneman, riitsumo tanpin iipeikou dora should be a better way.

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Re: another gameplay question

Post by Senechal » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:14 pm

That hand, 133445*5689m678p... calling is almost universally bad unless you have to gun for chinitsu for a guaranteed haneman, at the expense of speed, concealment, etc.
Ponning anything is bad here because of the drastic shanten drop. I mean, ideally, you would want to pick up a 7m to chuck 1m for a 3--6--9m wait (riichi, dora, iipeikou on 6/9), but a 1,2,3,6,7,9m can all bring you to tenpai. There are still 14 tiles (24-10) to get you to tenpai with 11 draws. Even if half of those are in opponent's hands, that still leaves seven or so. More than worth waiting quietly.

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