Severely in need of a japanese proofreading!

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Severely in need of a japanese proofreading!

Post by Shirluban » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:55 am

I'm making a bilingual help-sheet for the World Riichi Championship and I've managed most of the Japanese part, but I'd really appreciate some proofreading (I'm pretty much illiterate in Japanese).

There are also some phrases I failed to translate.
I don't need a literal translation, keeping the same general meaning should be enough.

The help-sheet is ==> here <==.

Thanks.
Cats don't do タンヤオ (tan-yao) but タニャーオ (ta-nya-o).
World Riichi Championship Rules
Comparison of riichi rules around the world

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Re: Severely in need of a japanese proofreading!

Post by Iapetus » Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:42 pm

I don't really know Japanese either, but I can contribute something:

•Big Four Winds is spelled "Big Fout Winds" under the liability payment section
•Four Concealed Koutsu / Suuanko is for some reason listed in the liability payment section. I've never heard of liability payment being applied to it. Shouldn't that be Four Kantsu / Suukantsu instead?
•At abortive draw, you want "Tochi Ryukoku" instead of just "Ryukoku". The Kanji are correct, though.
•Japanese Yakitori misspelled as "Yakutori"

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Re: Severely in need of a japanese proofreading!

Post by Ignatius » Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:16 pm

Allowed by the rules.
ルールにさせる。
Repeated cases may lead to obstruction penalty at the referee’s discretion.
繰り返したら、 審判員が罰になるかどうかを見計らいます。

Declaring riichi on an open hand 鳴いた手でリーチ。

The noten riichi penalty does not apply if the player's hand is noten solely due to a dead hand penalty occurring after the riichi declaration. The player still pays for being noten.
立直宣言の後,アガリ放棄はアガリ放棄だけでノーテンだったら、ノーテン立直罰(チョンボ)は使用しません。依然としてノーテン罰符を支払います。


To meアガリ放棄 (Agari Hôki) looks like more to アガリやめ (Agari Yame).

Dead Hand Penalty is called, as far as I know, 反則行為 Hansoku Kôi (Foul play conduct, act, deed).

宣言する: (Sengen Suru)To declare something (could help to avoid 言う).

途中流局: Tochû Ryûkyoku.


Please wait for other people to confirm what I´m saying is correct. I´m not sure if I´m correct with:

Repeated cases may lead to obstruction penalty at the referee’s discretion.

The noten riichi penalty does not apply if the player's hand is noten solely due to a dead hand penalty occurring after the riichi declaration. The player still pays for being noten.
Life is as beautiful as you want it to be, but it´s only one. That´s why you must not get tired of it. Don´t care if you don´t say something that seems "important" because your mere existence is important for someone.

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Re: Severely in need of a japanese proofreading!

Post by Shirluban » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:54 pm

Thanks you both!
Ignatius wrote:Allowed by the rules.
ルールにさせる。
I don't get why using the に particle here instead of the から particle?
And my grammar handbook is way too light.
Ignatius wrote:To meアガリ放棄 (Agari Hôki) looks like more to アガリやめ (Agari Yame).

Dead Hand Penalty is called, as far as I know, 反則行為 Hansoku Kôi (Foul play conduct, act, deed).
I get what you're saying, but Barticle's guide clearly says "agari hôki" for "dead hand" and "hansoku kôi" sounds a bit too generic (on the other hand, "agari hôki" seems a bit too specific).
I think I'll wait for a third insight.
Ignatius wrote:宣言する: (Sengen Suru)To declare something (could help to avoid 言う).
Indeed, 宣言する seems way better.
Cats don't do タンヤオ (tan-yao) but タニャーオ (ta-nya-o).
World Riichi Championship Rules
Comparison of riichi rules around the world

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Re: Severely in need of a japanese proofreading!

Post by Barticle » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:53 am

My guide defines a dead hand and then adds that "Agari Hōki means 'win renunciation'". So I'd say that's a property of a dead hand rather than being a term that means "dead hand".

How about 無効な手 which means "invalid hand"? Doesn't seem to be used widely, but it's in the Japanese-language rules pages of mahjongtime.com.

I just found that by searching on "deddo hando" in katakana. :)

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Re: Severely in need of a japanese proofreading!

Post by deJENNerate » Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:41 am

Hi Shirluban,

I just downloaded the file and will take a look. I'm handing it off to a Japanese pro so we'll have it back tomorrow.
(she's much more reliable than I am!)

Hope that's alright!

Jenn

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Re: Severely in need of a japanese proofreading!

Post by gemma » Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:26 pm

Hi Shirluban!

Sorry... I am in much confusion. I was asked by Valerian to make a translation, which I did and was waiting for the "final" revision before having mine proofed and corrected by a Japanese speaker.

I don't want to step on toes, but it seems like we're doing doublework and there has been some kind of breakdown in communication between myself, Valerian and yourself.

Let me know what should be done!

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Re: Severely in need of a japanese proofreading!

Post by Ignatius » Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:17 pm

Shirluban wrote:Thanks you both!
Ignatius wrote:Allowed by the rules.
ルールにさせる。
I don't get why using the に particle here instead of the から particle?
And my grammar handbook is way too light.
When using a causative verb (to make someone do or let someone do) I found that the subject of an action is usually marked with に (ni). When using an intransitive verb the subject of the action goes with を (wo) if it´s made to do something, with に (ni) when have permission to do something. When the intransitive verb express a phenomenon or uncontrolable emotion, as 困る(こまる)komaru: be troubled, the subject always goes with を (wo)。

Also, causative-pasive form only express obligation.

I wanted to say:
ルール Rules.
に By.
させる Permitted/allowed.

Literal idea:

It´s something like (I, or someone) allowed the rules to be or act (this way). it´s kinda weird, but, more or less, that´s the idea.

Translation:
Allowed by the rules.
Life is as beautiful as you want it to be, but it´s only one. That´s why you must not get tired of it. Don´t care if you don´t say something that seems "important" because your mere existence is important for someone.

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Re: Severely in need of a japanese proofreading!

Post by Referee » Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:29 pm

Wouldn't it make sense to use が here? Or maybe で? Dang, particles are my weak suit.

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Re: Severely in need of a japanese proofreading!

Post by Barticle » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:14 am

I always use ば - ba is the barticle particle. :P

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Re: Severely in need of a japanese proofreading!

Post by Ignatius » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:11 pm

Referee wrote:Wouldn't it make sense to use が here? Or maybe で? Dang, particles are my weak suit.
Probably で(de) could work, but when using a causative form, some things work similarily as passives, or so I think. That's why I made the concept ルール(rules) to go with に (ni) as "By". Like a passive sentece as: パンが犬に食べられた (pan ga inu ni taberareta): The bread was eaten by the dog.

が (ga) in a casusative sentence marks, as は(wa), who let or forced to do somenthing to X person.

Also, I forgot to mention, a causative in ~て + ください(-te + kudasai makes): (Please), let me, us, them... (do) X thing. 一緒に行かせてください(issho ni ikasete kudasai): Let me go with you.

My weakest point with japanese is, by far, the kanji system. I try to ammend that reading manga, books, and playing a few japanese language games I have as Fairy Fencer F (RPG), Disorder 6 (Visual Novel) or Mahjong Dream Club, always with a dictionary at hand. And also I practice writing too!

But it´s hard to keep them in my head.
Barticle wrote:I always use ば - ba is the barticle particle. :P
:lol: :lol:
Life is as beautiful as you want it to be, but it´s only one. That´s why you must not get tired of it. Don´t care if you don´t say something that seems "important" because your mere existence is important for someone.

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Re: Severely in need of a japanese proofreading!

Post by Senechal » Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:22 pm

K10: there is a "riichi" written "ri i chi" when it should be ri-chi in katakana.
M29: "rokuhai ka issou" = Is that natural? I'm not going to pretend to pontificate, but wouldn't "rokuhai ijou" be a better option? Not necessarily saying you have to change above that to "gohai ika" but...

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Re: Severely in need of a japanese proofreading!

Post by Referee » Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:26 pm

C42: No need to specify tens (or hundreds, or thousands) when there is only one. so 十三飜, not 一十三飜

(As you would say 百 or 千, but 一万.)

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Re: Severely in need of a japanese proofreading!

Post by Shirluban » Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:33 pm

Thanks all for your help.

@Jenn:
Do you have any news?

@Gemma:
I think Valerian asked you to translate the rulebook. Its final revision is on-line since about three weeks.
The document here is in no way a rulebook; it's only a bullet-list of major points and a summary of most penalties.
It's possible we're doing doublework; in this case if you have a Japanese translation of the rulebook I guess this helpsheet's proofreading could be completed in a jiffy.
Cats don't do タンヤオ (tan-yao) but タニャーオ (ta-nya-o).
World Riichi Championship Rules
Comparison of riichi rules around the world

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