Reachmahjong.com

I have noticed that some optional rules add to the strategy of getting points to achieve victory while others just add points once victory is achieved.
I would like to briefly provide some thoughts on those that I have used or made part of my regular game.
Comments are welcome and please correct any errors I may have made.

Red Fives: I use one of each and find these to definitely add some strategic value to winning (or losing) a match.

Haku Pocchi: I prefer to use only one of these white dragons as a wild card and although it doesn't happen very often since it must occur after riichi and with ippatsu, it does every once in a while surprise you with a win.

Ryan Han Shibari: Recently added to my game, I find that it does add some strategy to win when the honba count reaches 5.
Just have to be sure to keep an eye on it so you don't get surprised.

Wareme: Tried this a few times. Don't like it. Probably because it has to do with the wall and my computer games don't show the wall. It seems to be entirely luck based who gets the marker and creates some really monster point hands which can wipe you out immediately in the first hand if you are not the dealer (and not careful).

Oka: I use the 25k/30k option and although the 20 extra points get added after you win, there is some strategy involved in that if you are behind in points in south 4, and can keep the leader from reaching the target score, or get him to fall below it, you can get into the west round for perhaps a come-from-behind win (shanyu rule-no sudden death).
(Am I correct in assuming that under the 30k/30k option, you can never play the west round because someone will always have more than the 30,000 point target score.)

Uma, Shuugi, Dobon, and Yakitori: These 4 just seem to add bonus points after the match is over. I have tried all of these and am currently utilizing yakitori. None of these seem to have any strategic value for winning the match, unless they are actually part of the winning conditions.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=53059&start=15#p57578
As for dobon, I prefer the game ending when someone goes bankrupt. Don't like negative scores but I can live with someone being at zero. Don't use the bankruptcy penalty, the uma spread, or shuugi (tips).

I assume these latter 4 are basically used for gambling purposes where point totals may also be important in addition to winning the match. Am I overlooking any other reasons where one might want to use any of these in a computer game on a regular basis?

http://arcturus.su/wiki/Rule_variations

Hmm, I need to throw a couple more in there.

And looking at this:
http://www.uspml.com/forum/topicview/mi ... _anime.htm

Thank goodness that I never got to implement those rules; although, I managed to get a taste of them myself. They suck.

I believe Oka is only calculated after the match is finished at the same time as the Uma. I actually would lump the two together as they are both extra(or less) points based on your finishing position. They're also used a lot in tournaments.

Bankruptcy is only an issue in a tournament/league setting that relies on points to place people I feel. Since if someone goes bankrupt and the game ends then some players might end up playing less hands than others depending on their table. So some will have more/less chances to gain points. However if it is in play then it does add an element of strategic value in that if you're low on points you have to play more defensively since if you lose those points you're out, rather than if there is no bankruptcy you can go a bit harder and aim for the higher score for that comeback hand.

I would even say that Oka is a gambling-related bonus while Uma is one designed for sensible placement bonuses. I don't think that Oka and the lopsided point spread it creates have any place in competitive mahjong. If you want Shanyu, you can still use it without Oka.

Iapetus wrote:I would even say that Oka is a gambling-related bonus while Uma is one designed for sensible placement bonuses. I don't think that Oka and the lopsided point spread it creates have any place in competitive mahjong. If you want Shanyu, you can still use it without Oka.

Yeah I personally really don't like Oka in a tournament. It prioritises getting first place too much, rather than good play. Eg If there is a 20k oka and 10/20 uma if you come in second by 100 points, then all of a sudden you're 30,100 points behind (even worse if the uma is higher, I think my last tournament qualifier was 10/30 uma with an Oka) instead of the 10,100 you'd be if there was no Oka. 10,000 points is a reasonably manageable difference to make up, but 30,000 is a lot harder. Unfortunately both the NPM and the Saikouisen use it in their tournaments. JPML doesn't, at least not in their A rules. I don't remember if the B rules had it or not though, I THINK they didn't.

Iapetus wrote: If you want Shanyu, you can still use it without Oka.

Thanks. I think I now know how to do this. If I lower the middle number of 30000 down to 25000, that would eliminate the oka while still maintaining the 30000 point target score (bottom number), and shanyu.
I could also raise the top number of 25000 up to 30000 for the same effect but that would eliminate shanyu because someone would always have the target score.
Of course I could always raise the target score by increasing the bottom 30000.
I didn't realize these settings could be changed. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=53180&start=105#p57586

One more question, I have seen games where the top two numbers are both 27000.
Besides making it slightly harder to go bankrupt and slightly easier to reach the target score (of 30000), are there any other advantages or disadvantages to use 27000 instead of 25000 for the starting score?

Red Fives, like other kinds of dora, add some strategy but also a lot of randomness.
And being fixed to #5 (unlike other dora), they make tanyao even more interesting and chanta/junchan even more under-rewarded. IMHO, it unbalances the game (I'm a fan of chanta).

Ryan Han Shibari: Please tell us more!

Oka: I believe oka to be mostly a parlor rule, to ensure the winner wins enough to pay the table fee.

Ozball wrote:Unfortunately both the NPM and the Saikouisen use it in their tournaments. JPML doesn't, at least not in their A rules. I don't remember if the B rules had it or not though, I THINK they didn't.

AFAIK, NPM use a 20k oka ; Saikouisen and JPML A&B don't have any oka.
http://saikouisen.com/rule.php

30k/30k option: Technically, it is possible nobody have more than the target score: everybody can have exactly 30k (I don't know what happen with the West round option). It's even possible to have less, with non-collected riichi bets.

Shirluban wrote: Ryan Han Shibari: Please tell us more!

When I first enabled ryan han shibari, I basically forgot about it until I was surprised by what I thought was a no-win situation.
Since then, I have learned to keep an eye on the honba count just in case I have to adjust my hand.
I was ready to ron for tanyao and got stopped cold. It was my only yaku (1 han) and I needed 2 han.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=53247&start=30#p57558
I later found out that the only way I could have won the hand was with "last tile" ron (or tsumo), or "after a kan", each of those being a yaku worth another han. Doras would not count even if I had any since they are not yaku.
Minimum requirement is one yaku worth 2 han, like toi-toi, or two yaku worth 1 han each.
If you riichi (with nothing else), you can gamble on tsumo, or ippatsu, (both are yaku), for the win , but not ron after that.
Also, if you have to pass up that ron tile, you will be in temporary furiten.
(Correction from Referee: Temporary furiten is permanent when in riichi)
That's what happened in my situation even though I didn't riichi. I still had to pass up the 7, which would have completed my hand, hence, temporary furiten, and with only 7 tiles left, there wasn't much hope.
I hope all of this is stated correctly but I assume you already know all of this anyway.

Shirluban wrote:
30k/30k option: Technically, it is possible nobody have more than the target score: everybody can have exactly 30k (I don't know what happen with the West round option). It's even possible to have less, with non-collected riichi bets.

Good point! Barts guide states the target score to be 30,100. In that case, I guess the west round would be played.
The odds are high against but it is mathematically possible.

Temporary furiten is permanent when in riichi. In the case you explain it doesn't matter much, because you still need tsumo. But if you have to pass that winning tile, and the last discard is "winning" for you, you will have a very nice riichi houtei furiten hand.

Shirluban wrote:Oka: I believe oka to be mostly a parlor rule, to ensure the winner wins enough to pay the table fee.

Ozball wrote:Unfortunately both the NPM and the Saikouisen use it in their tournaments. JPML doesn't, at least not in their A rules. I don't remember if the B rules had it or not though, I THINK they didn't.

AFAIK, NPM use a 20k oka ; Saikouisen and JPML A&B don't have any oka.
http://saikouisen.com/rule.php.

Looking things up I had the wrong "Saikouisen." I was referring to the tournament of the same name which is actually run by Kindai Mahjong rather than the Saikouisen Pro Association as I had assumed. The tournament did use an Oka. Rules listed here (in Japanese): http://www.mahjong-saikyosen.com/%E3%83 ... %E3%83%AB/

or2az wrote: When I first enabled ryan han shibari, I basically forgot about it until I was surprised by what I thought was a no-win situation.
Since then, I have learned to keep an eye on the honba count just in case I have to adjust my hand.
Minimum requirement is one yaku worth 2 han, like toi-toi, or two yaku worth 1 han each. Dora don't count.
If you riichi (with nothing else), you can gamble on tsumo, or ippatsu, (both are yaku), for the win , but not ron after that.

Coincidentally, a few hours after I posted that above, I found myself in that exact situation.
The honba count was up to 6. With the , I was tenpai but I couldn't call riichi. No yaku and I needed 2. I decided not to gamble. I had a big lead. I would try to adjust my hand.

A few turns later, I drew the and tossed the . Now, riichi was an option.
As Referee stated below, riichi pinfu is 2 han.
When I claimed the winning 8 from North, I got a pleasant surprise: Parenchan. Double yakuman. 96000 points. Match over.
I learned from this not only to be aware of the honba count but also to remember if it was all your own doing.
As it turned out, I could have called riichi originally if I had been aware that this was my 8th consecutive dealer continuance (or win).

As a side note, of the 6 yakuman I have had, 3 have been parenchan. What I have found written about this optional yakuman always seems to be conflicted, wins or renchans, dealer for entire run or not,etc,etc. Perhaps this is because it is....optional.
I assume people just interpret the rule the way they want to.

Ozball wrote:http://saikouisen.com/rule.php

Looking things up I had the wrong "Saikouisen." I was referring to the tournament of the same name which is actually run by Kindai Mahjong rather than the Saikouisen Pro Association as I had assumed. The tournament did use an Oka. Rules listed here (in Japanese):
http://www.mahjong-saikyosen.com/%E3%83 ... %E3%83%AB/

As you have provided above, Saikouisen-NPM (最高位戦, ultimate rank) and Kinma's Saikyousen (最強戦, strongest fight) are two totally separate things. Not the same name at all though, but I guess most of us were confused about it at some point.

or2az wrote:Barts guide states the target score to be 30,100. [...]

It says 30,100 pts is a typical target.

You could play to 30,000... or 31,000, 31,100, 32,000, 32,100, 33,000, 33,100, 35,000 or 35,100 - take your pick!

Senechal wrote:

Ozball wrote:http://saikouisen.com/rule.php

Looking things up I had the wrong "Saikouisen." I was referring to the tournament of the same name which is actually run by Kindai Mahjong rather than the Saikouisen Pro Association as I had assumed. The tournament did use an Oka. Rules listed here (in Japanese):
http://www.mahjong-saikyosen.com/%E3%83 ... %E3%83%AB/

As you have provided above, Saikouisen-NPM (最高位戦, ultimate rank) and Kinma's Saikyousen (最強戦, strongest fight) are two totally separate things. Not the same name at all though, but I guess most of us were confused about it at some point.

Wow I completely missed the kanji difference too. Though I'd mostly heard the name rather than actually paid close attention to the promotional posters. Well guess I learnt something new! Thanks!

And here is the weirdest part: Riichi Pinfu is 2 han.