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Junchan

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:24 am
by or2az
Junchan, (pronounced joon-chahn), is a yaku which doesn't seem to get the respect it deserves. It doesn't occur very often, maybe because we don't go for it very often, and when we do go for it, we don't often get it.
It's discouraging to even try since you have to continue to discard dangerous tiles including all fours, fives, and sixes, along with the winds and dragons. It's like calling riichi without the benefits.
I had a shot at it tonight as dealer, and it was nerve-wracking up until West tossed a 9-dot with 14 tiles left. RON!!
I even tossed a red five as my first discard, something I never do.
No riichi, no ippatsu, no pinfu, no iipeiko, no sanshoku, and no tsumo. Just 2 han.
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I ran across this quote by HotelFSR from back in 2009.
"Players get Junchan less than 1% of the time, and it is impossible to stack with Tanyao and difficult to stack with pretty much anything else. The probablity of a stacked Junchan is tiny, something like 0.1%."

At least now it has its own thread.

Re: Junchan

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:48 pm
by Referee
2 han... and a renchan. It's true that it is hard to achieve, and then likely undervalued if you don't get something else. But as many other things, sometimes the tiles make you go on unexplored paths.

And as fellow country-man Ignatius, lover of a certain utterly adorable second year at Kazekoshi will surely remember (And he's not the only one) I leave with this quote: Riichi, Ippatsu, Tsumo, Pinfu, Junchan, Sanshoku, Iipeikou, Dora 3!!

Re: Junchan

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:02 pm
by Ignatius
Referee wrote:2 han... and a renchan. It's true that it is hard to achieve, and then likely undervalued if you don't get something else. But as many other things, sometimes the tiles make you go on unexplored paths.

And as fellow country-man Ignatius, lover of a certain utterly adorable second year at Kazekoshi will surely remember (And he's not the only one) I leave with this quote: Riichi, Ippatsu, Tsumo, Pinfu, Junchan, Sanshoku, Iipeikou, Dora 3!!
Oh yeah I DO remember... :)

Re: Junchan

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:18 pm
by Goldeneye
I make this yaku from time to time, but it is not often - mind you, if one does get it menzen, it's 3 han instead of 2 han.

You can stack this with a few other yaku, including sanshoku doujin (most common), iipeikou and pinfu (less common), but I agree, whenever someone makes this, it rarely comes with other yaku.

Re: Junchan

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:56 am
by Gnom
I don't feel junchan is a yaku you should aim for at the start of a hand (I wouldn't discard a red five at the start unless I was already pretty close, for example). I rather see it as an interesting bonus for a hand that turned out pretty well, kind of the same as hitting uras. The few times I got it was always in 6+ hans hands, since it was not the yaku around which my hand was built but it came to bring it up a bit.

Re: Junchan

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:01 am
by Heikai
I played an unranked tonpuusen for fun and got this as the last hand:
Image
Junchan, Sanshoku, Dora 1 for 7700 (+2000) points
I didn't even need to win anything big because I was leading.

Re: Junchan

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:52 am
by Kyuu

Re: Junchan

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:57 am
by Referee
It was hard with the 9s early discard, but you were kinda close to Chuuren...

Re: Junchan

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:41 am
by Iapetus
Screw chuuren. Menchin-junchan-ryanpeiko is much rarer. Had he drawn a second 8s, that 1s would have been a Kazoe Yakuman ron (and a Heisenberg Strike).


How I feel about Junchan:
-Open Junchan only is almost never worth going for.
-Open Junchan with sanshoku or a dora is okay.
-Open Junchan Sanshoku Dora is the ideal use of the yaku. I haven't seen it in ages, though.
-Closed Junchan happens out of pure luck and gives a ton of points. The last time I got it, I was planning to call for chanta only to get the riichi sticks, but drew into junchan sanshoku iipeiko out of nowhere and blew some unlucky guy away with a haneman.

However, I haven't played nearly enough junchan hands to truly know what to do with it, so take this with a grain of salt.

Re: Junchan

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:33 am
by mrfeng
Junchan or chanta is an amazing yaku to go for which has been highly underestimated.

Before attempting junchan or chanta, the most important factor is not your hand shape but what is the dora.

For example, many players struggle to utilise dora when the dora is a honour tile. Chanta or Junchan is something good to attempt because even when you meld it, you can tanki dora or at least pressurise players.

The reason why Junchan is the same value as honitsu is because it usually overlaps with sanshoku and sometimes pinfu. The downside of junchan is that it has lower defense ability while honitsu is a lot easier to defend with.

Always bear sanshoku in mind as the main yaku you are aiming for before attempting chanta. Especially if your sanshoku is of around 123 or 789, you will just have to prioritise keeping 2/8 over 5 if you wish to push for chanta. 456 middle tiles are more overrated than you think. Also, do have 1 safe honour tile just in case it turns into a pair so you can remove the other pair otherwise its function can be for defense purpose too.

The difficulty of doing junchan or chanta depends on a player's style as well. Junchan or chanta is difficult for players who are tanyao lovers, meld-lovers, yakuhai-lovers. How many times do you pon the 1st yakuhai out? If you hardly wait for the 2nd copy before doing a pon, it is even more unlikely for you to attempt chantan/junchan. Of course, religiously ponning only the 2nd copy is a bad habit. The balance of calling for the 1st or 2nd copy of the yakuhai is another required skill to learn before getting better in doing junchan/chanta.

Re: Junchan

Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:47 pm
by ijontichy
Hey guys thanks! If I hadn't read this thread recently, then I wouldn't have recognised how close I was to forming this lovely yaku this evening. This is the iOS app, Mahjong Nagomi HD.

Image

So we have:
  • Riichi (立直): 1 han
  • Ippatsu (一発): 1 han
  • Menzen tsumo (門前ツモ): 1 han
  • Pinfu (平和): 1 han
  • San Shoku Doujun (三色同順): 2 han
  • Junchan (純全帯): 3 han
That makes it a dealer baiman, and hence 24,000 points. Pity I didn't get any dora, but that's too greedy!

Re: Junchan

Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:58 pm
by Referee
So close to Kana-chan!!

Re: Junchan

Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:47 pm
by ijontichy
Pardon my ignorance, but what's "Kana-chan"?

Re: Junchan

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:59 am
by Ignatius
Kana-chan is a character from the anime Saki - 咲, and also my avatar. Kana Ikeda, or 池田 華菜 Ikeda Kana, as would be said in japanese.

She made a hand with:

Parts inside ( ) gets usually ommited.

Riichi. 立直.
Ippatsu. 一発.
(Menzen)tsumo(hô). (門前)清自摸(和).
Pinfu. 平和.
Junchan(taiyaochû). 純全(帯么九).
Sanshoku(dôjun). 三色(同順).
Iipeikô. 一盃口.
Dora 3. ドラ3. 3 in japanese is "san" in this case.

A 32,000 points Kazoe Yakuman, as she was Non-dealer, 子, Ko, in japanese.

Yeah, I know, I wrote a lot of japanese terms, sorry beforehand.

Re: Junchan

Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:45 am
by ijontichy
Haha, I watched that show, shows you my bad memory. Here's a present for you:

Image

Source.