yaku contest:kana vs koromo

[or2az]

I got this nice hand today and it got me thinking.
What is the maximum number of different yaku that can exist in a winning hand?
This one has 7. Riichi, Ippattsu, Tsumo, Pinfu, Tanyao, Iipeiko, San Shoku.

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I believe if you substitute Junchan for Tanyao, that you then have a Kana-chan, which is also 7.

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Can you get 8.....or more?

If riichi was called with 5 tiles left (I think it's 5), can you get haitei raoyue along with ippatsu?
I don't think anyone would ever do that (except maybe the Koromo) but it seems legal. That would give 8.

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Are there any other possibilities for 9.....or more?

Also, how about the maximum number of han that you can get from yaku only. (no dora)
I came up with this one but I'm not sure it's legal.

riichi, ippatsu, tsumo, pinfu, chinitsu, junchan, ryanpeiko, haitei raoyue (adds up to 17 han, I think)
This is also 8 different yaku and again you have to riichi with 5 tiles left.
Is this hand even possible? Can you have ryanpeiko in one suit?
I guess this would be a kazoe yakuman but the yaku would be listed separately on the score sheet.
Again, can you think up any other possibilities higher than 8 different or 17 total (assuming all of this is correct).

[Referee]

Four tiles remaining, not five.

Four remaining. Riichi.
Right-hand draws, three remaining, discards.
Center-hand draws, two remaining, discards.
Left-hand draws, one remaining, discards.
You draw, zero remaining. Tsumo.

Riichi Ippatsu Haitei, plus whatever other yaku you may have. This is clearly the work of the Kodo... Koromo.

(Of course five remaining BEFORE you draw on the second-to-last go-around).

[Ignatius]

Looking for info on this, I found the highest Han count, 52 Han.

Being East round, and being dealer too, to do:

Double Riichi, 2 Han. (Followed by 3 Ankan: 9 Ankan, Haku Ankan and Ton (East) Ankan. Waiting on Chun and Hatsu double pair).
Hôtei, Haitei, or Ippatsu, 1 Han.
Honitsu/Hon'iisô, (closed) 3 Han.
Honrôtô, 2 Han.
Toitoihô, 2 Han.
San Ankô, 2 Han.
San Kantsu, 2 Han.
Shô San Gen, 4 Han.
Double Ton, 2 Han.

Those are 9 Yaku.

Then having four 8 (of the same suit as your 9 Ankan) as dora indicators, and 4 uradora indicators as Pei (North) all, 32 extra Han.

Now we all know a posible ending hand for Saki in her final battle to end the manga... But I bet if she does this, she´ll do the numbered Ankan with 1 Pin, instead of a 9. The 1 Pin, looks like an open flower. Also she should not get a Double Ton, because that would mean Renchan, unless there´s the Agari-yame rule on play.

[Referee]

Can get it with dabu-nan instead. And yeah, ippin. But OP was asking for most yaku or han without dora. Still Saki leaves Kana-chan and the Koromo way behind. Especially if we count Shousangen properly. Shousangen Haku Chun.

[or2az]

This is getting more interesting than I imagined. I'm probably going to make some errors here so bear with me. As dealer in the east round, you were dealt a tenpai hand that allowed you to call double riichi and then discard a tile. You now have the following and are waiting on a green or red dragon.

I don't think ippatsu is valid because you would not have the time to call those 3 concealed kongs (the 9, white dragon, and east).
I don't think haitei raoyue is valid because then you would have Su Anko (4 concealed pongs) which is a yakuman and will wipe all those yaku off the score sheet.
Neither of these will affect your totals since after you ron your winning tile off some unfortunate soul, you will still have the list of yaku you mentioned:
double riichi, hōtei raoyui, honitsu, honroto, toi-toi, san ankou, san kantsu, sho san gen, and double east.
As you said, these are 9 yaku, but if the yakuhai are listed separately from the sho san gen, it would be 10 yaku. (I think they are)
The total han from these yaku would still add up to 20. This certainly beats the 8 and 17 that I came up with.
I was so involved with the number tiles that I completely neglected the hands that could be made with honor tiles.
Dora was not to be included but the information provided was also quite interesting.
This was a real mahjong demon hand. What kind of a monster could do this?

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[Ignatius]

Hell yeah, the correct thing will be

Double Riichi, 2 Han. (Followed by 3 Ankan: 9 Ankan, Haku Ankan and Ton (East) Ankan. Waiting on Chun and Hatsu double pair).
Hôtei/Haitei, 1 Han. (Ippatsu will be not valid because of the calling of Ankans)
Honitsu/Hon'iisô, (closed) 3 Han.
Honrôtô, 2 Han.
Toitoihô, 2 Han.
San Ankô, 2 Han.
San Kantsu, 2 Han.
Shô San Gen, 2 Han.
Haku, 1 Han.
Hatsu/Chun 1 Han.
Double Ton, 2 Han.

Then having four 8 (of the same suit as your 9 Ankan) as dora indicators, and 4 uradora indicators as Pei (North) all, 32 extra Han.

A hand like this need a monster luck.
11 Yaku in total.

Aso in South round a Nan (South) Ankan would do... As you've said.

[Iapetus]

For maximum yaku count, you should go with the Koromo strategy. To avoid suuankou, you must abandon toitoi, but you get ippatsu tsumo in return. Instead of Honroutou you get Chanta. No double riichi. Three kans are called, bringing the haitei course to East, and Riichi is declared on the second to last draw.

Tsumo

Riichi 1 han
Ippatsu 1 han
Haitei 1 han
Tsumo 1 han
Shousangen 2 han
Haku 1 han
Hatsu 1 han
Honitsu 3 han
Chanta 2 han
Sanankou 2 han
Sankantsu 2 han
Round East 1 han
Seat East 1 han

Total 13 yaku, for 19 han.

Note that I split the double East into two yakus, like Tenhou does. So this is only one yaku better than Ignatius' construction.

The winning tile is 1p to get the Iipin Raoyue optional yakuman. Koromo got that with her first Haitei win. Note that in the same match, Yumi got a Ryansou Chankan, and Saki got an Uupin Kaihou. You can find these in Barticle's guide.

[Referee]

More yaku, but one fewer han. This is very interesting. Saki wouldn't make it with Haitei o Houtei, but with, what else, Rinshan Kaihou. (And no, Rinshan Haitei are not compatible).

[or2az]

The winning tile is 1p to get the Iipin Raoyue optional yakuman. Koromo got that with her first Haitei win. Note that in the same match, Yumi got a Ryansou Chankan, and Saki got an Uupin Kaihou.

After reading up on these in Barts guide, I went back to watch them ( Saki episodes 15-19).
How did you ever notice those things? Are you one of those mahjong demons? (humor)

Question: In ep.16, on that Koromo win, she calls riichi "on the tile she just picked up on the last turn".
Kana says, "I can't call" and the top of the screen reads, "note: you can't call tiles during the last turn"
I am having trouble understanding this. Can you explain?

Question: In ep.19, on Saki's final win, Koromo has to pay it all when Saki won because she tossed the that gave Saki the open kan.
I don't understand this either. It was early in the hand. A lot happened after that. The pung was concealed in Saki's hand. What was so terrible?
(Its not like that pao rule with the exposed dragon pungs)

Next:
I noticed above that both of you list each individual dragon pung yaku separately. In the games I play, the dragons, and winds, even the double winds, or any combination of wind and dragon yaku, are all grouped into one category, 役牌 [yakuhai]

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Is this done just to save space on the screen, in case of too many yaku, or for other reasons?
I also noticed that in the stats, they are listed as 飜牌.

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Bart's guide lists all 4 of these terms. Are all of these methods and terms interchangeable and basically acceptable?
役牌 [yakuhai] / 飜牌 / 翻牌 [fanpai] / 風牌 [kazehai]

Lastly, on a slightly unrelated topic, I noticed in the anime that the girls seem to get embarrassed or flushed when asked to call each other by their first name (saki and nodoka, kana and mihoko). Is this frowned on in Japan, even for kids?
Also, Mihoko sometimes says Kana-chan and at other times, Ikeda-san. Why both and what's the difference?

[Ignatius]

Questions.

Ep. 16: As far as I know you can call in the last turn. But you cannot call the last tile unless it's to claim a win. So probably Kana-chan couldn't call it. I bet her idea was to break the flow, and change who will take the last tile from the wall.

Ep. 19: This is the Daiminkan no Sekinin Barai 大明槓の責任払い, or Daiminkan no Pao 大明槓の包.

As it's name suggest it's only valid with a Daiminkan (an Open Kan having a concealed triplet and claiming the fouth tile from a player discard). In this case the player who discarded the tile wich allowed to do the Daiminkan, is reponsible for the whole hand if the winner wins with a Rinshan Kaihô (because of that Daiminkan). So he/she will have to pay the value of the hand.

With Saki´s miraculous abilities she's able to do 3 Kan in a row. As she doesn't end her turn with the first Kan, she able to complete her hand, and to do so with a Rinshan in the same turn this rule starts. Which means she made Koromo responsible for the whole payment, even if she won with tsumo. If Saki had to stop and wait another turn to keep doing Kans, Kakan/Shominkan, Ankan, or whatever, Koromo would still been responsible.

Ron2 stick to this, for example.

About Yakuhai:

役牌 [yakuhai] / 飜牌 / 翻牌 [hanpai/fanpai]: Are the same.

風牌 [kazehai]: This means only wind tiles, which excludes dragons.

Edit: Forgot about the last question:

Usually people in Japan use to call others by Surname+san (or his/her proffesion related honorific). To call other by the given name could be overfriendly. It's only something one would do with, family, close friends, and loved ones.

In Saki they do blush a lot. Probably to show strong relationships between characters.

Mihoko is a formal girl, so she follows this pattern (Surname+san). But since when Kana asks her to go home with her everyday and call her by her given name, she does. To me, given the fact this anime has a lot of yuri (lesbian relationship), and all I instantly thought: That´s a proposal, you know, dating and all.

Japanese people sometimes are not exactly what you could call blunt. This fact is a common joke in japanese love comedies.

Mihoko only calls Kana by her given name, and only her.

The problem came from the people who seen a relationship between Hisa and Mihoko. As I see the story, it's true that Mihoko had interest in Hisa. But they met only once prior the tournament, and there's Kana for her now. In the filler we see Mihoko and Hisa playing, I see that as a way for Mihoko to move on. And yeah, I know it's true that Mihoko opens her right eye when she's with Hisa.

There's a lot of shipping of Hisa x Mihoko, and some of those fans do even hate Kana. Or so I were told.

[or2az]

That same thing occurred in South 1 of your match. Someone tossed a and you made an open kan. Although calling that kan wasn't a great move on your part, I cant see what was so bad about the discard. So you are saying that if you went on to win that hand, the discarder of that 4 would be responsible for full payment no matter what else happened. Not fair! or is that an optional rule?

Oh, I just found it in Bart's guide.
If the Kong was completed with a discard tile called from an opponent (i.e. if it was a Daiminkan)
then usually the discarder pays for the win in full, just as they would with a Ron win. This is a
variation of the Pao liability rule applied to certain exposed Yakuman wins.

I thought it was only for open yakuman hands like Big Three Dragons or Big Four Winds where all the other sets needed are already complete and exposed and
the potential for making the Yakuman is obvious.
I see that it is optional for other open yakuman like all Honours, Sū Kantsu (Four Kongs), Chinrōtō (All Terminals) and
Ryūiisō (All Green).

[Ignatius]

That same thing occurred in South 1 of your match. Someone tossed a and you made an open kan. Although calling that kan wasn't a great move on your part, I cant see what was so bad about the discard. So you are saying that if you went on to win that hand, the discarder of that 4 would be responsible for full payment no matter what else happened. Not fair! or is that an optional rule?

Oh, I just found it in Bart's guide.
If the Kong was completed with a discard tile called from an opponent (i.e. if it was a Daiminkan)
then usually the discarder pays for the win in full, just as they would with a Ron win. This is a
variation of the Pao liability rule applied to certain exposed Yakuman wins.

Daiminkan no Pao it's an optional rule, yeah. Well when I did the Kan I thought: Hell, why not try to get a Rinshan? I almost never do a Kan. And I chose to give it a try.

[Iapetus]

Question: In ep.16, on that Koromo win, she calls riichi "on the tile she just picked up on the last turn".
Kana says, "I can't call" and the top of the screen reads, "note: you can't call tiles during the last turn"
I am having trouble understanding this. Can you explain?

Translator mistake. You can call tiles during the last go-around. Kana just couldn't call the tile that was discarded, and was upset because of that.

Lastly, on a slightly unrelated topic, I noticed in the anime that the girls seem to get embarrassed or flushed when asked to call each other by their first name (saki and nodoka, kana and mihoko). Is this frowned on in Japan, even for kids?
Also, Mihoko sometimes says Kana-chan and at other times, Ikeda-san. Why both and what's the difference?

In Japan, surnames with honorifics are commonly used. Using one's first name indicates a degree of familiarity or closeness. It would be plain rude to do it to a person you don't know.

I'm not sure about Ikeda-san usage. It should happen in the flashback, and when Mihoko is talking about Kana to someone else. Kana-chan would be used when talking to Kana.

That same thing occurred in South 1 of your match. Someone tossed a and you made an open kan. Although calling that kan wasn't a great move on your part, I cant see what was so bad about the discard. So you are saying that if you went on to win that hand, the discarder of that 4 would be responsible for full payment no matter what else happened. Not fair! or is that an optional rule?

[/quote]It's an optional and uncommon rule. You will rarely see it outside manga etc.

[or2az]

I'm not sure Bart made that clear enough in the guide. That kan rule is on p.29 under rinshan kaihou and the optional pao rule things are on p.35.
I'm not complaining, just observing.
I just added some more stuff to my post just above. Thanks for your explanations.

[Ignatius]

I'm not sure Bart made that clear enough in the guide. That kan rule is on p.29 under rinshan kaihou and the optional pao rule things are on p.35.
I'm not complaining, just observing.
I just added some more stuff to my post just above. Thanks for your explanations.

I think its batter to have both types or Sekinin Barai, the Yakuman ones and the one related to the Rinshan Kaihô in the same part: P. 35 Sekinin Barai. To avoid confusions and make it clearer.