game flaw or another optional rule?

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or2az
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game flaw or another optional rule?

Post by or2az » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:29 am

Ryan han shibari (二飜縛り) - When there are five counters out (due to dealer's consecutive wins or draws), a minimum of two yaku are needed to go out. Dora and red five tiles do not count towards the yaku minimum.
to clarify: 2 han coming from yaku required. Either a 2 han (or better) yaku, or two or more different yaku. Dora is not a yaku. (Referee)
I found a game which takes the ryan han shibari rule literally, it allows a dora (which is a han though not a yaku) to count as part of the 2-han minimum for the win (at a honba count of 5, naturally).
If its not a flaw in the game, it must be just another optional rule. (or2az)
As far as I'm aware any conditional (5+ Honba) so-called "two-han requirement" will never count dora, although as we know there are endless rule variants and exceptions out there.
I suggest you take some screenshots if you think it's happening. (Barticle)
Well, It took quite a while, since mid-november, to intentionally get into a situation where I would have a hand with only a 1-han yaku, dora tiles, and a honba count of 5 or more, and then try for a win (without menzen tsumo or another yaku), and also that I wouldn't mind the hand being wasted (big lead here) due to the ryan han shibari rule in effect.
Unfortunately, I won the hand when I should not have been allowed to.
I don't see this as a big deal since I wouldn't even attempt this under normal game conditions. The only consequence is that my computer opponents would be able to get away with it, every once in a long while. No matter, I'll just have to play smarter when the honba reaches 5.
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My only question is that the last character for ryan han shibari in the guides (二飜縛り) is slightly different than in the game. Any significance here?
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Senechal
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Re: game flaw or another optional rule?

Post by Senechal » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:10 am

The difference between the last characters in both contexts is font-related.

In English, there is the Roman-styled "a" (current forum fonts have this), and the ball-and-stick "a" that most people write, usually with a bit of artistic freedom involving closing the roundish balloon then pulling the stroke down.

Image

That's all it is. Both are hiragana, both pronounced ri.

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Re: game flaw or another optional rule?

Post by Ignatius » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:48 am

Yes, and it's common to see it written, by hand, as り, with two parts. But for example, my phone 's japanese keyboard has the key of that syllable written as your game does.
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Re: game flaw or another optional rule?

Post by Referee » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:44 am

The difference stems mainly from the traditional writing of Japanese, that was done in ink with a brush, rather than a ballpen or more currently with a keyboard. So the "ri" hiragana symbol, り, usually had ink dripping from the first stroke to the second.

Later, if you are just taking notes in a rush, it's quicker to do it without raising your pen, so you can have the two strokes joined in one, but if you have to present something written with neatness, two strokes is where it should be.

And of course, in the choosing of fonts there is enough variations to account for all tastes. I have problem with some fonts that make the "small symbols" needed for double consonants, like in いっくつかん (ikkutsukan), or in changing vowels, as in the topical りゃんはんしばり (ryan han shibari), almost full size, which forces you to read them as full size and then go "wait, that's not right!".

There's of course evidence of the different styles in western language fonts.

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