Is there a discard efficiency quiz

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ardiel
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Is there a discard efficiency quiz

Post by ardiel » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:16 am

Are there any discard efficiency quizzes/mini games? Like the ones that quiz you on waits, but for what discards are the best?

I'm wondering because I like to play Pro Mahjong Kiwame Next which has a secondary type of scoring which it calls "sense" which is basically a rating of how well you are playing. It starts off giving you a certain amount of chances and will give you sense points for making good discards, but will take away chances if you make bad moves. If you run out of chances you go into 'danger' and if you lose a hand while in danger, you instantly lose the game no matter what. So basically it demands that you play well. It also has an extra feature where you can discard softly or with 'impact', discarding with impact gives a bonus to sense score but is judged very harshly if you make a bad discard with impact.

I am usually pretty good at not being penalized but some times it tells me that my discard makes 0 sense and the reasoning is not obvious to me, so apparently I need more practice.

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or2az
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Re: Is there a discard efficiency quiz

Post by or2az » Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:05 am

This might help. It's called a tenhou calculator and it seems like a pretty handy tool. You plug in a hand and it gives you the possible discards in order of preference and the number of good tiles you can draw, not counting what's on the table, since it can't possibly know that. I was told about this recently so I'm not that familiar with it. It looks like this.
http://tenhou.net/2/?q=30m26789p22667s12z
The format for entering the hand is as follows:
123m123p123s123z, where numbers before m indicate man tiles (cracks), p pin tiles (dots), s sou tiles (bams), and z honors (in order, they are: east, south, west, north, white, green, red). Red fives are indicated as 0. (see example)

This calculator does a lot more but I will have to leave it to others to elaborate on, if you find it useful.

If you are new to the forum, there is also a WWYD (what would you discard?) section, with many of them offering lengthy discussions on the pros and cons of discard choices made in various situations. Other topics include "another gameplay question" and "quick decision vs wwyd".
These are just a few of the many topics that deal with discards. There is a multitude of information here. All you have to do is search, and enjoy!

ardiel
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Re: Is there a discard efficiency quiz

Post by ardiel » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:38 pm

This is informative, thank you. Using this tool I can see the logic that the game uses more easily.

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Ignatius
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Re: Is there a discard efficiency quiz

Post by Ignatius » Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:32 pm

The Tenhou calculator:
If you press 一般形 (ordinary o common form), on the left you will see a calculation without considering Chii Toitsu (7 pairs) and Kokushi Musô (13 orphans). If you pressed this buttton, the button to go back it's in the same place, and it's 標準形 (standard form). 標準形 does consider Chii Toitsu (7 pairs) and Kokushi Musô (13 orphans).

If you click on a tile you can load a new page with another group of discarding options.

This calculator does not consider yaku, like Pinfu (I think it´s called Peace in english? I don´t use the english names of the different Yaku, I don´t know the english names...) for example, only the concept of 4 sets and a pair (except for Chii Toitsu and Kokushi Musô, of course). Also does not consider Ankan (Closed Kan). it does show the tsumoed tile (the one picked from the wall, the mountain, or what you call it) on the right. Just a bit separated from the others.

Pressing 新規 (new search), a button on the upper left, will generate a wide new list of WWYD (What Would You Discard) questions.


Edit: Also you can play this kind of quiz game here: http://www.saki-anime.com/1st/nanikiru/
And you can play mahjong free, against AIs, here: http://www.saki-anime.com/1st/special_game.html

Both places are in japanese, but, more or less there´s no problem to play. In the quiz game at the top of each quiz there´s info as: Round wind and number of the round, the turn, which is your seat wind, and which tile is the Dora. Example:

東1局1順目 東家    ドラ 9-crak

状況:

East 1 Round 1st turn. Seat wind: East. Dora: 9-crak

Situation: A little or nothing as an explanation on the situation. Each quiz has it own...
Last edited by Ignatius on Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is there a discard efficiency quiz

Post by saitym » Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:15 pm

Tenhou Calculator is a good tool in terms of getting the correct tile efficiency, however you have to remember that there are alot of circumstances where discarding less tile efficient tiles are actually the correct decision.

Also you talk about scoring called 'sense' and how that is related to how well you play but you have to take into account how old the game is and how the strategy has moved on from 4-5 years ago. You might fall into the trap where the game recommends you to play a certain style which goes against the modern style and in effect may (or may not) make you a worse player.

If you want, I can post WWYD with (almost) definitive answers (that are backed up by data) from strategy books.

Also a tool better than tenhou calculator I recommend is 一人麻雀練習機 or solo mahjong practice tool which you can download from here http://ara.moo.jp/mjhmr/

The great thing about this tool is that it simulates and calculates the expected points value for each discard for a particular hand if you click the simulation button. Also, although it's a little bit fiddly, you can set whatever hand you want to simulate manually. It's a good tool in terms of getting the right? discard from a particular hand and it's good practice but if I have to state some flaws, it's that you are literally playing on your own (no AI) so you can't chi or pon.

ardiel
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Re: Is there a discard efficiency quiz

Post by ardiel » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:42 pm

saitym wrote:Tenhou Calculator is a good tool in terms of getting the correct tile efficiency, however you have to remember that there are alot of circumstances where discarding less tile efficient tiles are actually the correct decision.

Also you talk about scoring called 'sense' and how that is related to how well you play but you have to take into account how old the game is and how the strategy has moved on from 4-5 years ago. You might fall into the trap where the game recommends you to play a certain style which goes against the modern style and in effect may (or may not) make you a worse player.

If you want, I can post WWYD with (almost) definitive answers (that are backed up by data) from strategy books.

Also a tool better than tenhou calculator I recommend is 一人麻雀練習機 or solo mahjong practice tool which you can download from here http://ara.moo.jp/mjhmr/

The great thing about this tool is that it simulates and calculates the expected points value for each discard for a particular hand if you click the simulation button. Also, although it's a little bit fiddly, you can set whatever hand you want to simulate manually. It's a good tool in terms of getting the right? discard from a particular hand and it's good practice but if I have to state some flaws, it's that you are literally playing on your own (no AI) so you can't chi or pon.
Thanks.

Yeah, I'm aware it could develop bad habits if I do what the game tells me strictly. However it gives you plenty of room to go against the system so really you only have to not make constant bad plays. I actually ignore its advice pretty regularly when I know what I'm trying to do. It also won't penalize you for soft discards even when they're not the best (though it will still strike you for ones that are completely dumb)

It leaves plenty of room for your own style, you just might not get to higher levels that have a big sense requirement but I don't play for that anyway.

Thanks for the info though.

Edit: also this program is pretty neat, thanks for pointing me to it.

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