So... how do you like to play?

Japanese Reach Mahjong Rules. Strategy, news, sets - anything!

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So... how do you like to play?

Post by Referee » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:01 am

Hi there. I saw the link in Shirluban's sig comparing different rulesets, and I thought about doing this.

I know that for many around here they play mostly online / computer game / app and thus you have to adapt, but if one could teach new players the rules (and you're only concerned about the play-style, not difficulty of learning, say experienced mahjong players, but not riichi) what would you use? Following the options in the link mentioned before, here's what I would teach.

Kuitan and Atozuke ON
Kuikae OFF in all cases
Starting 25k, Goal 30k, Uma 20/10 (+40/+10/-10/-20) including Oka. Ties divided equally.
Renchan on Tenpai (possible variant, renchan on positive). Noten is ON (One of the defining characteristics, IMHO, though not at the same level as Riichi and Dora)
All Dora ON, Red Fives ideally one in each suit (but I don't have a Japanese set, so that would have to go)
Call precedence is Ron - Pon+ - Chii (pretty standard)
Double and Triple ron ON (My defining principle is: No easy escapes, if you deal into two hands, you pay both, but if you deal into three hands you walk away unscatched? Nah-ah)
Temporary Furiten ends on my own call (obviously not ron) or my draw (The chart says "player's discard", but then you have to say that Tsumo is allowed. It makes sense after all, but see * below)
No abortive draws of any kind, max 4 Kans, but only because there's no more dora indicators (Maybe I could go with unlimited kan, but a rule that says there can only be five indicators max, plus five hidden)
Pao is ON (on Dragons and Winds it makes sense, not so sure on Suukantsu. The saki play is ron). I hadn't thought about the tsumibo on a split payment. So I don't have a preference here.
Automatic agari yame if Oya is first and has at least 30,000. Not on tenpai.
Dobon on -100, no maximum. Riichi needs 1000 points. West round if needed, sudden death.
Yakitori and Wareme OFF
Wining is 2 han? Well, duh! I can't envision any other way...
Kiriage Mangan OFF
Kazoe Yakuman ON. Multiple Yakuman ON. Kazoe doesn't stack. Is it possible to have a yakuman with 13 han on the side anyway? Maybe suu ankou with many dora, but yeah. It doesn't stack.
Furiten Riichi allowed (but I don't see any advantage on doing it, so it usually happens by mistake)
Kan after Riichi must maintain all possible interpretations and waits. (I'm not sure what the "if it changes yaku" line means, however)
Kokushi can NOT rob an ankan (Kokushi is already special, why does it deserve more uniqueness? It hurts seeing that kan, for sure, but that's Mahjong)
All green without Hatsu OK
Haitei Rinshan OFF
Nagashi Mangan is a Yaku.
Tenpai defined by shape (Yakunashi, Karaten, Furiten OK, but five copies of a tile in the same hand is NOT Tenpai)
Yaku values as standard (What is the difference in showing Daburu Riichi / Double Win as 2 Han, or 1+1 Han?)
Open Riichi NOT allowed. Ryanpeikou I explain as 1+2, although technically not true. It's easier to grasp (IMHO) and the result is the same. But the two Iipeikous have to be different)
Seven Pairs is 2/25
Renhou (is that the one that is by ron?) OFF. The other two are OK. (See ** below)
Daisharin OFF (It's Sanbaiman at the very least anyway)
Shisan Puutaa OFF (Big time! No easy escapes, remember?)
Paarenchan ON
Scoring is standard. Menzen Ron is 10 fu, Open pinfu shape is 2 fu. Rinshan is self-drawn. (What is the difference between "2 fu" and checkmark here?)
A double wind tanki is 4 fu. (Hmm... it's an inconsistency for sure... but meh)
Non-standard Double Yakuman: Chiitoi Tsuuissou (Daichiisei)

* The case that seems more controversial is a Saki play (Kan-Tsumo) while being Furiten. My rules say Rinshan is self-drawn (2 fu) so it should be legal. It may hurt, though. For maximum controversy, what if I have two ankou, I let one pass, and I call the other in the same round? Scary, eh?

** This may raise controversy, but hey, this game has so many rule points you have to agree on! :) My ruling: Tenhou Kokushi, Tenhou Chuuren are not pure, and Tenhou Suu Ankou is not Tanki. There is no "wait", and it may be hard to track down which tile is #14.

So what are your preferences around here? (This might be a bit text-wally... Sorry about that)

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Re: So... how do you like to play?

Post by Shirluban » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:54 pm

I'll teach WRC because it's a nice ruleset, pretty standard (few variation from other rules), and have proper documentation.
But I might not be impartial here. :P
Temporary Furiten ends on my own call (obviously not ron) or my draw (The chart says "player's discard", but then you have to say that Tsumo is allowed. It makes sense after all, but see * below)
Furiten forbids only to win by ron, so it doesn't matter if it ends on "player's discard" or on "player's draw". (I admit saying it ends on player's draw might be more logical).
In any case, you have to say tsumo is allowed, to make things crystal clear.
Kan after Riichi must maintain all possible interpretations and waits. (I'm not sure what the "if it changes yaku" line means, however)
If you have, say three concealed kan and make a fourth one, you change the hand's yaku.
It seems JPML doesn't allow that.
"構成および手役が変わらない時に限る。"
"Restricted to times when configuration and hand yaku are constant."
What is the difference in showing Daburu Riichi / Double Win as 2 Han, or 1+1 Han?
The difference is in how the yaku is defined:
"2" means "the rules say double riichi is worth 2 han (does not stack with riichi)" -> total 2 han.
"1+1" means "the rules say double riichi is worth 1 han (+1 han for riichi)" -> total 2 han.
Open pinfu shape is 2 fu.
Open pinfu 2 VS 10 fu is actually irrelevant, since no other points are awarded and it's rounded up to the next 10. :wink:
Same for Seven Pairs 2-25 VS 1-50: in the end, it's the same thing.
Rinshan is self-drawn. (What is the difference between "2 fu" and checkmark here?)
In my table, it refers to the previous line "Winning by self-draw / tsumo ten".
"Rinshan = checkmark" means the 2 fu for tsumo are scored in case of rinshan (total = 2 fu).
"Rinshan = cross" means the 2 fu for tsumo are not scored in case of rinshan (total = 0 fu).
"Rinshan = 2 fu, and Tsumo = ???" means the rules don't bother telling how much the tsumo points are :evil: , but say you get 2 fu in case of rinshan (total = 2 fu).
A double wind tanki is 4 fu. (Hmm... it's an inconsistency for sure... but meh)
In you rule how much is a non-wind tanki? And a double wind non-tanki?
Cats don't do タンヤオ (tan-yao) but タニャーオ (ta-nya-o).
World Riichi Championship Rules
Comparison of riichi rules around the world

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Re: So... how do you like to play?

Post by or2az » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:21 pm

Related thread from 2012.
Too common to show up in a search.
Thought you might be interested.

http://reachmahjong.com/en/forum/viewto ... =5&t=53055

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Re: So... how do you like to play?

Post by Referee » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:23 pm

I used the wrong word there. A tanki wait is 2 fu. A guest wind pair is 0 fu. A dragon or paying wind pair is 2 fu. A double wind pair is 4 fu. A double wind tanki agari is therefore a total of 6 fu. Man, counting fu is hard.

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Re: So... how do you like to play?

Post by Gnom » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:40 pm

Shirluban wrote:Same for Seven Pairs 2-25 VS 1-50: in the end, it's the same thing.
Close but not exactly. What about, say: chiitoitsu, tsumo, tanyao, dora x2?

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Re: So... how do you like to play?

Post by Shirluban » Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:11 pm

Gnom wrote:
Shirluban wrote:Same for Seven Pairs 2-25 VS 1-50: in the end, it's the same thing.
Close but not exactly. What about, say: chiitoitsu, tsumo, tanyao, dora x2?
The two rules I know using 1-50, state Seven Pairs becomes 2 han if the hand is worth mangan or more. :lol:

So it's actually:
2 han 25 fu *
VS
1 han 50 fu * if the hand is worth 1 to 4 han, or 2 han if the hand is worth 5+ han
Simplification at its finest!

(* and no other fu, no rounding up)
Cats don't do タンヤオ (tan-yao) but タニャーオ (ta-nya-o).
World Riichi Championship Rules
Comparison of riichi rules around the world

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Re: So... how do you like to play?

Post by Gnom » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:56 am

Image
Don't know how famous the Shadoks are in the world but as a French I'm sure Shirluban will get it :D

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Re: So... how do you like to play?

Post by Senechal » Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:58 pm

The reason it is said to end on a discard is that every player action ends in a discard or winning. A turn may start with a draw or a call.

You can call and discard to end your furiten state. (Someone else calling and discarding could end theirs but not yours)

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Re: So... how do you like to play?

Post by Shirluban » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:02 pm

Thinking again, you quit being furiten when you change your hand.
So, IMHO, the idea is temp furiten ends when you (had a chance to) change your hand.
Since it only happens once you've discarded, temp furiten ends on the player's discard, not draw.

@or2az: Yeah, it's the problem on this forum, everything is too common to show up in a search.

@Gnom: You've got the idea! :lol:
Cats don't do タンヤオ (tan-yao) but タニャーオ (ta-nya-o).
World Riichi Championship Rules
Comparison of riichi rules around the world

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Re: So... how do you like to play?

Post by Kyuu » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:40 pm

To keep things simple, I just run with Tenhou's rules. Yet, it's nice to have the capability to play with modified conditions.

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