renhō questions

[or2az]

Renhō (人和). 1st one. It took over 3200 games (about 35,000 hands) for this luck-based hand to occur.
I was surprised by only scoring 8000 points since I once had Tenhō and I knew it was a yakuman.

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Went into Bart's guide to do some research and found that Tenhō and Chiihō are both listed under yakuman while Renhō is listed under optional yakuman. That was somewhat interesting, at least it was to me. They seem quite similar so I figured they would all be yakuman. I wonder why not?
More reading yielded the following. I've included the definitions.

Renhō (Human Win) is related to Chiihō but, instead of winning on your first turn, you win
before your first turn by calling Ron on an opponent's discard.
Renhō can be scored as a Yakuman but in some rules it's only awarded a Mangan.

Chiihō (Earthly Win) occurs when a non-dealer's first drawn tile from the Wall completes their
hand.

Tenhō (Heavenly Win) occurs when the dealer (east) has a complete hand at the start of the
hand of play. In other words it's the dealer version of Chiihō.

I went into the settings of my game and noticed that Renhō (人和) can be turned on and off. I had it on.
What would the hand have been worth if I had it off, not even a mangan??

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[Tom Sloper]

What would the hand have been worth if I had it off, not even a mangan??

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If it's off, then it's probably not recognized as having any value at all. Does your game have a detailed help section, or an online forum, or a support email address?

[Referee]

And in this particular case, yakunashi.

[or2az]

Wow! That's right. I wouldn't even be able to claim any win at all. No yaku in the hand. I guess I would have to wait for my turn and then riichi or hold off for a better wait than kanchan. There is a good possibility of tanyao dora 3, or more. Still a mangan, I think. Glad I had it renhō ari instead of nashi.

Does your game have a detailed help section, or an online forum, or a support email address?

Yes, no, and no.
My detailed help section for this game goes by the name of Ignatius. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=53180&start=45#p57209
Surprisingly, the Athena Web Site (Professional Mahjong KIWAME) support page doesn't seem to exist any more. I get NOT FOUND.
Even if it did, it would all be in japanese and not much help to me, which is how "severely in need..." got started.
Oh wait, I just found something in the app. Maybe it will help.

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[Referee]

The ideal draw is 4-pin, for a potential daburii tanpin iipeikou dora 3, baiman.

[Ignatius]

Your own detailed help section for this game comes, well, err, to help!

or2az image caption:

役一覧 Yaku list 特殊役 Special Yaku

人和 (レンホー) Renhô

子が副露のない第１巡目でロンアガリする。 Non-dealer player has no calls and during the first turn wins with Ron.
本アプリでは満貫扱いとする。 This application consider it as a Mangan.

流し満貫 (ナガシマンガン) Nagashi Mangan

流局時、自家の捨てた牌が全て么九牌だった場合に成立する。ただし、捨てた牌が他家に副露されている場合は不成立。満貫扱い。
In a draw, in the event that all your discarded tiles are only Yaochû tiles (1, 9 and honours) this Yaku will be completed. However, if one or more tiles of your discarded tiles are claimed by other players to complete melds this Yaku will not be valid. It's considered a Mangan.

[Shirluban]

Different rules give different values for renhō.
It could be yakuman, mangan/5 han (combining or not with other yaku), 4 han (plus other yaku and dora), nothing.

[Gnom]

I also saw it treated as a baiman. Only once though, but it goes to show how it can get different treatment...

[Iapetus]

I also saw it treated as a baiman. Only once though, but it goes to show how it can get different treatment...

And in the rules of my club, I lobbied it into being 8 han + whatever else you have. In hindsight, I think 5 han + whatever is fair, since that can match up with double riichi + ippatsu + whatever, and isn't too punishing for something there's no way to avoid. The only problem with that is the possibility of Chiho still existing. Would you pass a win for a chance at yakuman tsumo, knowing you can still double riichi if that fails?

[Referee]

That's tricky, because your winning tile is among the few ones that can be considered 100% safe at the moment of daburii being thrown in, and still without going into furiten. So it could be a good thing to pass up this win. As usual, take scores and round-hand number into account.

[Barticle]

I happened to be looking up some obscure yakumen on Wikipedia Japan today and found a table collating options from several online mahjong platforms.

Five disallow renhou, two give it mangan, one gives baiman and five give yakuman.

[Ignatius]

I happened to be looking up some obscure yakumen on Wikipedia Japan today and found a table collating options from several online mahjong platforms.

Five disallow renhou, two give it mangan, one gives baiman and five give yakuman.

Just being lazy, but... Link, please?

[Barticle]

No probs, it's at the bottom of the "local yaku" page: http://goo.gl/EjA6sE

[Ignatius]

No probs, it's at the bottom of the "local yaku" page: http://goo.gl/EjA6sE

Thank you, Barticle!

[or2az]

No probs, it's at the bottom of the "local yaku" page: http://goo.gl/EjA6sE

WHOA!!!, he replied, and then laughingly he asked, IS THERE AN ENGLISH VERSION?
(google translate just doesn't cut it)