About the Pao Rule

[Ignatius]

I´m wondering if the Pao rule is always the same. I´ve read in some places this rule is applied only to Daisangen (Big 3 dragons) and Daishushii (big 4 winds). Other adds too the Sû Kantsu (4 Kan). And there is too The Daiminkan Pao. Exposed Kan made of a concealed Pon and won with a replacement tile (the Rinshan Kaihô). This confuses me.

Wich are used in a tournament?

[azn86.jedi]

my understanding of the Pao rule applies to Rinshan Kaihou- in that if you make a Daiminkan off someone's discard, and win off the supplemental tile that you draw, that person is responsible to pay for the value of the hand you make.

I'm naturally assuming that rule applies to any hand that has a Daiminkan....

[Senechal]

Daisangen and Dai-suu-shi are the only "universal" examples. Dealing a live tile that gets made into a kan, 4 kans with the 4th made off a discard, or even Tsu-ii-sou with a discarded 4th triplet could have an insurance rule applied against them, in theory.

In practice, it depends where you go. Garthe himself has been burned once by dealing a live tile a long time ago.

The only one that isn't covered at all in Riichi from what I've gathered is chinitsu (full flush). I think that's a Hong Kong only thing.

[azn86.jedi]

The only one that isn't covered at all in Riichi from what I've gathered is chinitsu (full flush). I think that's a Hong Kong only thing.

erm... just what are you trying to say here? I don't quite understand?
Are you saying that making chinitsu hands is a Hong Kong thing?

[Senechal]

I'm saying that if you've made 4 open melds (123 222 567 999) of the same suit, in HK style, whoever threw the tile to make the 4th meld would be liable under the same rule to pay half in case of another's ron, or everything in case of tsumo.

Then again, there are many little differences in how people play HK style amongst themselves. But I have never heard it applied to Riichi ever.

[Referee]

How does pao work with double yakuman. If you give someone Daisangen and they tsumo Daisangen Tsuuishou, Do you have to pay for the double yakuman, even though Tsuuishou doesn't have a pao rule? (My guess is yes, otherwise it's complicated. Just don't deal the third dragon when two are showing in the same hand).

[Ignatius]

Thank you very much for the answers. It seem riichi mahjong has no standard rules as the chinese version has. I mean, Riichi rules has their standard, but a lot of options too... Sometimes gets too confusing, but still is a wonderful game. I lovet it. it and I have a lot to learn about this game. Afortunately I bought a book for newbies, in japanese, it´s very interesting. I´m playing on the internet and almost everytime I´m defeated. I´ll keep playing.

[Shirluban]

How does pao work with double yakuman. If you give someone Daisangen and they tsumo Daisangen Tsuuishou, Do you have to pay for the double yakuman, even though Tsuuishou doesn't have a pao rule?

Yes, you pay for the whole hand (AFAIK).

[Archon_Wing]

Out of curiosity, are you still responsible for bao, if you declared riichi and afterwards you give them the last set?

[Ignatius]

The most probably answer is yes.

[Referee]

I seem to recall gaving read that if you are in riichi before the pao situation is created (vg you riichi in turn 7, while a player has Chun, then in turn 9 he calls Haku, and now pao is in place for Daisangen) you are exempt, but if you riichi after the situation exists you are not. However, I don't know if that is standard procedure.

[Barticle]

I´m wondering if the Pao rule is always the same. I´ve read in some places this rule is applied only to Daisangen (Big 3 dragons) and Daishushii (big 4 winds). Other adds too the Sû Kantsu (4 Kan).

I think you answered your own question there. There certainly seem to be several variations.

My book gives Dai San Gen and Dai Sū Shii as the standard ones but the rule can optionally be extended to Sū Kantsu, Tsūiisō (all honours), Chinrōtō (all terminals) and even Ryūiisō (all green). I guess any yakuman that can be played open, basically.

[Ignatius]

I seem to recall gaving read that if you are in riichi before the pao situation is created (vg you riichi in turn 7, while a player has Chun, then in turn 9 he calls Haku, and now pao is in place for Daisangen) you are exempt, but if you riichi after the situation exists you are not. However, I don't know if that is standard procedure.

Ｉｓ　ｔｈａｔ　ａｌｗａｙｓ　ｔｒｕｅ　ｏｒ　ｉｓ　ｏｐｔｉｏｎａｌ？

[Senechal]

Riichi after is an irrelevant question.

Riichi before would pre-empt it. The whole point of pao-soku is to punish people who deliberately deal in without considering folding the hand.

[Ignatius]

I assume it´s as you´ve said always. Ok, Thanks!