So... What Rules Do You Play With?

[wavemotion]

It seems that there are dozens of common variations in how one plays Riichi Mahjong (and, likely, dozens more that are played locally that don't make it into the typical Riichi references and various Mahjong books in print).

Here is the rule-set I tend to use:

General Rules
Tonpuusen (East-Only round as opposed to the more typical Hanchan East-South rounds - I prefer my games a little more luck-based and a bit more aggressive offensively and I get this with East-only matches)
1 Han Minimum
Agari Yame: Yes (you can quit when you win the final hand and are ahead)
Hakoware Tobi: Yes (Any player falling below zero points ends the game)
No-Ten Bappu : 3000 points (penalty points for a drawn hand by the players not ready)
Ta Cha Hou: Allowed (the 'head bump' rule which allows 2 players to Ron simultaneously and both are paid)
I have no feeling for 3 player simultaneous Ron - I've not seen it happen so haven't thought about it. I suspect I'd go for a draw.
I don't know what it's called in Japanese, but I prefer that the seat winds only stay if the Oya (Dealer/East) wins (i.e. on a draw seat winds will rotate).

Dora Rules
Ura Dora: Yes (the underneath/underside Dora for those who Reach and win)
Kan Dora: Yes (new dora indicator flipped with each Kan)
Kan Ura Dora: Yes (the underneath/underside Dora below the extra Kan dora)
Akadora: Yes (Red 5's as follows: 2 in Pin, 1 in Sou, 1 in Wan)

Yaku and Ready Rules
Open Tanyao: Yes (all-simples can be open)
Tsumo Pinfu: Yes (you can self-draw a 'Peace' hand and forgo the 2 points you would normally get for that)
Daburu Riichi: Yes (you get an extra yaku for declaring Reach on your first turn)
Riichi Ippatsu: Yes (you get an extra yaku for going out within 1 turn of declaring Reach)
Nagashi Mangan: Mangan (5 Han) Limit Hand (all Terminal and Honour discards, no player takes any of these and the game otherwise come to a draw)
Kazoe Yakuman: Yes (13 Han). This allows you to get to the maximum Yakuman limit by getting your han value (with Dora, etc) up to 13 or more.
Dai Sharin Yakuman: Counts as Yakuman hand ("Big Wheels" - I'm all for more Yakuman hands at least until I get one!)

I realize these rules aren't exhaustive but those are the ones that come to mind when I play and when I explain the game.

So... how do you play?!

[Shirluban]

I play with EMA Riichi rules.

[Iapetus]

-Tenhou rules (open tanyao, no kuikae, no ryanhan shibari), 3 aka hanchan
-With open riichi and atama-hane (even for triple ron)
-Sanrenkou (2han), Shiisanbudou (yakuman), Renhou (8han), Daichiisei (double yakuman) added. Double Yakumans for suuankou tanki, kokushi 13 and junsei chuuren.

[wavemotion]

I play with EMA Riichi rules.

This is, admittedly, the best single-reference rule-set I've seen and I like how the Europeans have tried to codify the game. I'm not a fan of the Closed Tanyao/simples hand however

[Ignatius]

General Rules

I use both Tonpuusen and Hanchan. I prefer Tonpuusen online. Playing offline I use both. And with people, I prefer Hanchan.
I don´t like Ryanhanshibari even with 5 honba. If I can choose I always play with Iihanshibari, 1 Han Minimum only. And honba are 300 points.
Agari Yame, Yes I use it (you can quit when you win the final hand and are ahead).
Hakoten/Dobon/Hakoware Tobi: I use it. I dont´like the players to lose points "ad eternum"/endlessly. (Any player falling below zero points ends the game). For me if you have exactly zero you´re alive...
No-Ten Bappu : 3000 points divided as needed (penalty points for a drawn hand by the players not ready).
Double Ron (Daburon as japanese says). I like that, so I use it except When I teach how to play, when I like to use Atama hane, one winner only.
Tenpai Renchan: I like the East to continue being East (Oya) if is in Tenpai. I dont like Agari Renchan, to have to win to keep the Oya position.
Edited: I use Kuikae ari.

Dora Rules
Ura Dora: Yes (the underneath/underside Dora for those who Reach and win).
Kan Dora: Yes (new dora indicator flipped with each Kan).
Kan Ura Dora: Yes (the underneath/underside Dora below the extra Kan dora).
Akadora: Yes (Red 5's as follows: 1 in Pin, 1 in Sou, 1 in Wan, one of each).
Kandora display: All types of Kan at the same time, before the player discards.

Yaku and Ready Rules
Open Tanyao: Yes (all-simples can be open)
Tsumo Pinfu: Yes (you can self-draw a 'Peace' hand and forgo the 2 points you would normally get for that)
Daburu Riichi: Yes (you get an extra yaku for declaring Reach on your first turn)
Riichi Ippatsu: Yes (you get an extra yaku for going out within 1 turn of declaring Reach)
Nagashi Mangan: Mangan (5 Han) Limit Hand (all Terminal and Honour discards, no player takes any of these and the game otherwise come to a draw)
Kazoe Yakuman: Yes (13 Han). This allows you to get to the maximum Yakuman limit by getting your han value (with Dora, etc) up to 13 or more.

When me and my fiends learn to play and when we play regularly I will ask to add local Yaku and Yakuman. Just because I´m curious.

[WaveMaster]

Rather than list my preferences for all different types of rules and rule sets, I'll just give some thoughts on two rules that (as far as I can tell) aren't as commonly discussed but have come up for me.

When are kandora revealed? This is probably the more obvious of the two rules, since Tenhou draws your attention right to it. Tenhou reveals the kan dora for a closed kan immediately, but for an open kan only after the player discards. EMA rules, as best as I can tell, call for the kan dora to be immediately revealed in all cases. I have also played under an unusual rule set where the kan dora from an open kan is not revealed until after a tile passes in the pond (that is, is not called for any reason). Rules where the kan dora is not revealed immediately on an open kan have two issues. First, you don't have all the information you'd like to have after forming a kan to inform your discard. And second, if you win by rinshan kaihou after forming an open kan, you don't receive any kan dora for that (because you never discarded). I prefer revealing the kan dora immediately.

Is kuikae allowed? I don't know of any good English equivalent for this word. Kuikae is when you call a tile to complete a set, and then discard another tile which could have completed that same set. Examples are calling a 2 for [234] and then discard another 2, calling a 2 for [234] and then discarding a 5, and calling a 2 for [222] and then discarding the fourth 2. Most of the places I have played (including Tenhou) do not allow this. It matters because kuikae can make it easier to fix up that sanshoku you missed when you drew the wrong side of a two-sided wait to enter tenpai, without breaking your tenpai. Also, I think there may be some other strange strategies that become possible if kuikae is allowed, although I'm not certain. Given free reign, I would generally disallow kuikae, but I'm fine with it being allowed.

[Shirluban]

I believe these two rules are not discussed because you have pretty much said all that can be said.

EMA rules, as best as I can tell, call for the kan dora to be immediately revealed in all cases.

You tell right.
Honestly I don't see any reason to do otherwise.

Is kuikae allowed? I don't know of any good English equivalent for this word.

"Chow switch"? (That also applies to pon.) "Set switch"? "Tile switch"? "Switching"?
Ok, no good English equivalent.

Even when kuikae is allowed, it's improbable to use it because 1) you rarely have the opportunity to switch a shuntsu/koutsu, 2) when the case shows up it's generally more interesting to pass.
For example, it "make it easier to fix up that sanshoku", indeed, but if your hand is concealed (as it should be most of the time) you'll get more points by keeping it concealed without sanshoku than by making an open sanshoku.

One strategy with kuikae allowed is to "pass" a turn by not changing your hand and discarding a 100% safe tile, granted by temporary furiten.
But it's bad manner.

[Kyuu]

The Kan-dora thing.

It has to be a pain in the butt to enforce using real tiles. In computerized games, it's a lot easier to enforce, by programming it into the game. But real tiles? Y'gotta be very particular about that. For very casual games, it's just something I do not bother with. Someone calls Kan, flip it whenever... whatever.

Kuikae,

No. Simple as that.

[Referee]

I wonder if it would be a drastic change gamewise if I explained that draw happens always at the fifth kan.

[wavemotion]

The Kan-dora thing.

It has to be a pain in the butt to enforce using real tiles. In computerized games, it's a lot easier to enforce, by programming it into the game. But real tiles? Y'gotta be very particular about that. For very casual games, it's just something I do not bother with. Someone calls Kan, flip it whenever... whatever.

Same here. When Jenn and I play we always just flip it immediately. It's a small simplification of the rules and, to be perfectly honest, I think the Riichi rules could do with a few minor simplifications. If you listed all of the common Riichi rules you might find that the basics of the rules (i.e. what happens 98% of the time when you play) take up about as much space as the the corner cases (what happens 2% of the time). The little bit of loss of strategy from eliminating (or simplifying) those rules would more than be made up for in making the game more accessible to a wider audience. All in my humble opinion, of course.

[xKime]

Local club rules



http://moejan.osamuko.com/what-rules-to ... %E6%96%B9/

In other words, mostly standard ariari rules, with 30k in and 30k out, without oka with a 1-2 uma. Kandora flipped immediately on all cases. If any disagreement came up, tenhou right3 takes precedence.

[Senechal]

I believe the European practice of pick-and-switch play to be beyond "rough play" and in "foul play" territory.

I've seen someone override someone's chi call to pon and seal the last tile in the discards, ruining the other player's yaku (and hand, since it was open... sanshoku 1-2-3 in this case, can't convert to tanyao even if it were allowed... the player who ponned didn't even have a hand left, did it purely out of spite) and I've seen the "ippatsu-breakers" with the same tile as what was just called. (56+7, throw 7).

The only problem with trying to paint any of these behaviours as foul play... is that a fair portion of Japanese leagues and literature often allow it.


As for how mahjong is played in Montreal (partially unfair to say Canada since we are still the only club that has assured its perennial existence, although there are a few others out there), standard ari-ari concept. Nothing enumerated below violates that concept.

• 25k in, 30k out
• Multiple and stacked yakuman both count
• Kokushi ankan override allowed
• No red fives - it adds no strategy to the game aside being a tile hog for undeserved point inflation.
• Normal sudden death since 2012... didn't stop one game from going to North 4 once.
• No dead hands for minor and inoffensive stuff like having a tile from the dead wall fall. We don't worship the dead wall, while neglecting the other tiles for punishment. Any tile flipping of less than 5 tiles costs a 1000pt ante, a non-riichi deposit. Only time dead hands exist are for over- or under-picking tiles in the hand in tournament mode.
• Staggered dora flip.
• All pick-and-switches banned.
• GOLDEN RULE: No discriminating against deaf or mute players. If a hand drops down, actions speak louder than words. Evaluate the hand for the winning conditions, or chombo if it fails the yakuless or furiten conditions.

For mahjong to be shared and spread, it is important that anyone who learns the basics can sit and go, regardless of their source, or what language they read their source material in. Other styles of mahjong, like "nashi-ari" mahjong cannot allow this basic principle by design.

[Kyuu]

For tomorrow, I'll be dealing with this:

・東南戦
　・後付け　有。
　・食いタン　有。
　・流局　親アガリ以外の連荘はなし。
　・ダブルロン　有。
　・トリプルロン　有。
　・マネマン　無。
　・オープンリーチ　有。
　・焼き鳥　有。
　・箱下　箱下計算はしない。
　・カウント　南4局開始時に点数を申告する。
　・ウマ　1位+20、2位+10、3位-10、4位-20。

　・赤ドラ　有。
　　　　　　五筒×1枚、五索×1枚、五萬×1枚。

https://www.facebook.com/events/426747600725207/

Personally, I can't read that. Although, I have been briefed on the rule, where renchan can only happen IF dealer wins. Otherwise, seating rotates while honba count continues.

Though, with this event, it'll be a matter of turnout, which sadly may not be as much as last year. But I'll how it all goes.

[Ignatius]

I´m wondering what fansub is the one showed in that Saki´s image. I know it has nothing to do with discussing rulesets, but...

[wavemotion]

I´m wondering what fansub is the one showed in that Saki´s image. I know it has nothing to do with discussing rulesets, but...

Underwater Mahjong