quick decision vs WWYD

[or2az]

Since you don't have a lot of time to analyze every possible outcome of every situation that occurs in a live game, a quick decision usually has to be made on what to discard. Obviously, in a computer game, you have more time, but you don't want to take all day deciding. There are more important things in life.
I stared at this one longer than usual before I decided to toss the I just picked. I considered a couple of other possibilities.

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Two turns later, I drew the , called riichi, discarded the , (which was an easier decision), and quickly won the hand on a discarded 6.

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Now, even though it worked out well, I was curious. Was the initial choice the right one? Can there be more than one good choice? Did I overlook a tile that was clearly a better discard?

[Iapetus]

6s discard was correct. Discarding 1m gives the same amount of tiles to tenpai, but makes pinfu and iipeiko harder to get and the eventual tenpai wait worse. Discarding 2m reduces the amount of tiles to tenpai, and the increased chance of iipeiko wouldn't be worth it even if it didn't. Even at a quick glance, It's a good idea to preserve the reliable 3-way wait and let extra tiles support the weaker manzu.

The 5m discard riichi you did was not correct. You should have discarded 2m so you can get iipeiko.

[or2az]

The 5m discard riichi you did was not correct. You should have discarded 2m so you can get iipeiko.

Right! Tossing the 2 would have given me the same ryanmen wait except I would get that extra yaku if I would have drawn the instead of the . I should have seen that. Thanks.

[or2az]

Here's another one where I had to make a quick decision on which way to go. I saw the possibility of seven pairs, toi-toi, or tanyao.
It was east 2 of a hanchan and I was in 4th place.

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I decided to discard the . There was one showing on the table.
When another was tossed, I weakened and opened the hand. I claimed it and tossed the other .
I had a dora and it was still early in the match, so why not.
Five turns later, I claimed a for the win, not a lot of points.

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Now again, even though it ended well, I'm not convinced this was the way to go.
Any opinions?

[Iapetus]

I don't think tanyao dora1 is enough here. It's better to focus on a closed hand and go for riichi with chiitoi or sanankou.

1s is overall the second best discard here, as 26m56s get you to tenpai and most let you go for tanyao sanankou. However, by discarding , 26m236s get you to tenpai. That's an increase of 4 tiles, since two 5s are already gone. There's also the fringe possibility of drawing 1s and going for toitoi, even suuankou.

[or2az]

Understood. I tend to overlook that with sanankou, only the 3 pungs have to be concealed and that the rest of the hand can be open, so I go for that faster win only to be disappointed with the point total. Have to work on that. Thanks

[mrfeng]

I do not think this is a clear-cut 7toi case.

To do a good 7toi, try to have 2-3 tiles remaining that will give you good waits upon tenpai. That is to say, to have honor tiles for easy Tanki wait. If you keep that 234s, whichever arrives wouldn't give you a good wait, you will still have to wait again.

I would say the discard of 1s is fine because a draw of 5s still allows you to riichi and 3ankou is still in check. It also have the flexibility of doing tanyao for a fast hand if needed.

However, the mistake is more of your discard of 7m when you should have discarded 6m. a 6m 6s shanpon wait is terrible. You won on 6m was out of that player's mistake. (He shouldn't have discarded it when it is a live suji to Riichi). Discarding 6m (it is relatively safe to you as it is 1-chance.) and wait on 58m6s which includes riichi's genbutsu of 8m is a lot better.

[or2az]

However, the mistake is more of your discard of 7m when you should have discarded 6m. a 6m 6s shanpon wait is terrible. You won on 6m was out of that player's mistake. (He shouldn't have discarded it when it is a live suji to Riichi). Discarding 6m (it is relatively safe to you as it is 1-chance.) and wait on 58m6s which includes riichi's genbutsu of 8m is a lot better.

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate all feedback. I have an explanation, which may be flawed, but I'll give it a shot anyway.
The shanpon wait is for 3 tiles ( two of the cracks and one of the bams).
The wait is for 5 tiles (one five, three eights, and one six).

I chose to discard that 7m instead of the 6m for two reasons:
(1) The player opposite me had a pung of 7m exposed on the table. I figured mine was safe. (and would also help me out in reason #2)
(2) All 3 opponents had a in their discards. Since I never claimed any of them, I figured they would assume I didn't have the 45 and would therefore feel free to toss the , which one did. (naturally, I could not be holding the 78 neither)

I may be overthinking this whole situation.
It's very possible that the extra 2 tiles on the wait supercede my other 2 reasons.

[mrfeng]

However, the mistake is more of your discard of 7m when you should have discarded 6m. a 6m 6s shanpon wait is terrible. You won on 6m was out of that player's mistake. (He shouldn't have discarded it when it is a live suji to Riichi). Discarding 6m (it is relatively safe to you as it is 1-chance.) and wait on 58m6s which includes riichi's genbutsu of 8m is a lot better.

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate all feedback. I have an explanation, which may be flawed, but I'll give it a shot anyway.
The shanpon wait is for 3 tiles ( two of the cracks and one of the bams).
The wait is for 5 tiles (one five, three eights, and one six).

I chose to discard that 7m instead of the 6m for two reasons:
(1) The player opposite me had a pung of 7m exposed on the table. I figured mine was safe. (and would also help me out in reason #2)
(2) All 3 opponents had a in their discards. Since I never claimed any of them, I figured they would assume I didn't have the 45 and would therefore feel free to toss the , which one did. (naturally, I could not be holding the 78 neither)

I may be overthinking this whole situation.
It's very possible that the extra 2 tiles on the wait supercede my other 2 reasons.

My choice of 6m was actually ignoring the mathematical advantage.

I've several reasons based on situational analysis.
1. The discard of 6m or 7m are equally safe as you have 3 5m.
2. To your 2nd reason, it is similarly applicable for them to think that since someone has ponned a 7m, 8m is not needed, which it fact 8m was being tossed out.
3. The wait on 8m is Riichi's genbutsu. For a player to be bailing against the riichi, there is no reason for him to discard a live 6m when he can discard 8m first.

Finally, if you factor in the mathematical advantage, it will become clear that 58m6s machi is more superior.

[or2az]

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North has just discarded the .
So, do I pon it, open my hand, discard my , go for tanyao dora 3 on a wait.....or, do I pass on it and stay concealed?
There are some interesting possibilities here, but alas, it did not end well.

[Ignatius]

My quick decision:

Being all those out, chances are another could be unneeded, I probably try to stay concealed.

When playing concealed you have more defense options, so... Also that hand shape looks good.
It could get as good as:

(Tsumo, Riichi, Ippatsu) Tanyao, Pinfu and Iipeikô or even Ryanpeikô if you´re very lucky, and 3 dora.

If the doesn´t come out, and with a hand llike this you can get tanyao dora 3 nomi, if the situaion gets dire and you need to move fast. This is a pretty good hand value even if it´s low compared to it´s full potential.

[mrfeng]

My quick decision is to take this tenpai.

Reasons being:

1. There's no need to aim for concealed for a bigger hand. Wining this 7.7k is big enough to secure your first.
2. There are this hand and the next hand for 2nd to catch up to you. You cannot afford to defend when you can attack.

The only risk to consider is that by pon the , you will no longer have any safer tiles against toimen.

However, this risk is not an issue. If toimen really riichi, you will still lose out when he tsumo. If you furikomi to him, you will drop to 2nd only. Risk of getting 3rd is quite low.

If you can reach tenpai earlier than toimen, why not? It means 1st place is closer to you than him.

At late games such as south 2~4, the score distribution is a lot more important and should be prioritised analysing that aspect before looking at the value or speed of your hand.

[mrfeng]

Being all those out, chances are another could be unneeded

Just a short example, when you have , upon drawing , you will discard .

It is a common occurrence and are still needed

[Ignatius]

Being all those out, chances are another could be unneeded

Just a short example, when you have , upon drawing , you will discard .

It is a common occurrence and are still needed

Sorry, I've explained myself in a bad way, for sure. When I said that could be unneeded, I wanted to say that, as Or2az have 2 of them and one was discarded, chances are that the last one could be discarded too.
I'm sorry for my mistake.

[mrfeng]

uh... I don't really understand.

To look check whether will be discarded is about the whereabouts of and isn't it? I don't think it has anything to do with the number of in your hand.

On the contrary, I think the more you have, the more likely other opponents want . In this case, most likely it seems to me that the left player need it.